question regarding theives/trap picking

[MrFlibble]

Hey, I'm relatively new to the forums and thusly I am not up to date with a lot of posts. I ran a search really fast but could not find anything about this. I was wondering if there are any othe bonuses/incentives to play as a thief class. Is there any experience reward for successfully picking a trap/lock for thieves, or are the only rewards the actual items in the chest? If so, any character can simply lockpick(I know it will not be as expensive advance points wise for the thief). I am simply wondering will their be any other incentive/uniqueness added to the thief class. If not, then I highly doubt anyone would want to play as this character. That's pretty much the only question/concern I have with the game right now. All in all it's a pretty sweet game though.


Thanks,
Steven

[txa1265]

For good or bad, it doesn't appear that you get XP for picking locks or disabling traps like in BG2.

The thing is, that XP difference to get the skills to pick locks/traps could make a world of difference - plus the Thief gets dexterity and other skill bonuses that make it a unique character class.

Mike

[Narserke]

For good or bad, it doesn't appear that you get XP for picking locks or disabling traps like in BG2.

The thing is, that XP difference to get the skills to pick locks/traps could make a world of difference - plus the Thief gets dexterity and other skill bonuses that make it a unique character class.

Mike

It will make a world of difference, since at least in the demo all chest were all a level three or four, and i am guessing that a lot of non-thieves that choose to take some thieves skills might find it rather hard to get to even level three let alone four, and there for are probably going to be passing a lot of chest up, and there for miss out on some good items.

i also noticed a back-stab skill under the diabolic skills..and tradionally that's a thief skill..and in this game they may only make it avaliable to thieves or those with a thief subclass, or to people with a a high related attribute. i didn't notice any sneak skills, but i wasn't looking, and i don't know if they can set their own traps..that could be kind of cool...for those who like luring stupid monsters into traps.

personally, at least with my brief experience in nwn as a thief, i don't think thieves make that great a class to be unless you are a real role player, not doing it for their abilities, but just to be one.

remeber though, thieves are good for one thing at least..you can send them into the mountain and risk their lives around the dragon so you don't have too:)

[Ubbax]

txa1265 wrote: For good or bad, it doesn't appear that you get XP for picking locks or disabling traps like in BG2.
You do in fact get experience for Inspecting/Pick/Disarm locks. It comes in the form of reduced cost to buy the next rank in that skill. The speed at which you learn skills is determined in part by Intellect. For instance:

Currently Rank 1 in each of the above skills cost you 500 points from your pool of earned experience towards the next level, you must pay this initial cost. Rank 2 in each of those skills costs 1500 exp. After you try to Inspect/Disarm a chest or Inspect/Pick a door the cost for Rank 2 will no longer be 1500, it will be a lesser amount.

What's indeterminate at this time is whether the experience put towards lowering the cost of the next Rank is coming out of the experience pool you earn towards your next level, or is a bonus over and above that.

If you check you'll note that this "cost reduction" currently occurs for all Weaponry/Thief/Diabolic skills beyond the initial 500 point cost to get the skill. It is not occuring presently for Magic/Defense/General skills.

Note if you happen to have taken Light Side Weapons (Dual Wielding) you will only earn experience towards the Rank for weapon type (Light/Medium/Heavy) in your primary hand, you earn nothing towards the Rank of the weapon in the offhand. I'm of the opinion that you should gain for the offhand type but at a substantially lower rate.

In fact if you pay very close attention you'll note any attempt to equip the the Bladed Mace with the Goblin Sword or Dagger, by "Dual" wielding", equips both weapons in the right hand at the same time :P Yes, yes it's a bug I know...

Ah well while I'm at it I guess I should point these out for Chuk:

Clicking ALL, Displays the pic of a Dagger, to the right of the Bow, ID'ed as Wood Arrow, Dam: 2 - 4

Chain Mittens, have 15/15 vs Leather Gloves which have 35/35

The Loot Tables could use some tightening up. At the moment the difficulty of a lock is not reflecting the quality of loot very well. Too often a Level-4 chest will toss out the same (one or all of) Potion, # gold, spell book, that a Level 1-3 chest does. If the amount of chests is reduced or this progression continues the returns for experience invested, towards Inspect/Pick/Disarm, will be substantially lower in comparison with the Main Skills of other character classes. This impacts Multiplayer more so than Single.

Alright I'll keep quite.. I know everyones hoping for the Gold Master ;)

[Mythor]

Everyone's hoping for the retail release. We can't (legally) get our hands on the Gold version! :D

The reduced cost thing sounds interesting. If skills other than the thieving ones do that too then it's not really a plus for the thieves?

[Narserke]

That reduced cost of experience for attempting a trap or lock does sound interesting.

Also, I agree that the loot tables are kinda bad, but maybe that's just for the demo. The problem is, that if they had made it so that a level 3-4 chest dropped something good, or at least some item of equal level, then because a: every chest from the sewer to the theater was a trap of at least level 3, b: it was cheaper in the demo to advance thief skills for non thiefs then it will be in the final release, then had they done in the demo as is suggested and improved the loot tables, you might have people with lots and lots of great items. maybe to fix this in the final release, if it would have indeed happened, they can make fewer chest locked...as it is now so many chest are trapped that it just makes since for every character to invest in thief skills as soon as possible otherwise they are going to miss out on a lot of stuff..where as if only a few chest were trapped, there wouldn't be as great a need for the investment..i would probably still invest, but only because i feel that i would miss that one chest that had that one really cool item.

as a side note, i would like to point out that in morrowind and nwn the original campaign, the lootables were similarly skewed. morrowind it may be due to the fact that so many things in the game had magical properties, but still there were times when the lock level didn't match the item..and nwn was worse..at least i thought, i mean i understand you were a relatively low level in that game, but it always seemed as though the loot table, the items that game randomly selected from was really small..i mean i got so many freaking sashed of shimmering or cloaks of the elvenkind..and those trapped chest that would kill you or severly injure you and that Tommi Undergallows, the npc henchmen, couldn't even disarm should have had some better drops as well.

[onewolf]

in terms of chests, i look to the D&D model of opening them, mainly because i don't kno of a better system:

theives use disarm/pick lock.

mages use Knock spell.

fighters Bash.

as it is now, bashing is....unreliable, even if you str is relatively high and your weapon skills as well.

[Narserke]

well the way bash should work is that with a certain level of strength success is possible, but obviously the trap goes off..and maybe that's how it works now, but i was never successful with a bash, didn't try that much. so anyway warriors wouldn't have to get disarm trap, but they would have to be prepared to deal with traps disarming and wounding them.

[onewolf]

i managed to open a low lvl chest by bashing the **** out of it, but not before being thoroughly eviscerated (14) multiple times.

[Narserke]

well i agree, the way the bash works now is way too hard, i mean in an rpg game things are supposed to improve as you level aren't they? i mean at first it should be hard to bash a chest, even for a warrior, but as he gets more strength, it should become easier to the point most chest can be bashed at the first attempt, but you still set off the trap..which can still hurt for higher level chest that will probably have traps that will cook you and bring all the rats when they smell dinner.

[onewolf]

i don't mind this either way, but wouldn't setting off a trap make further attempts trap-free? i can see using magic to justify a trap that never expires, but any mechanical trap would only contain a limited number of charges, but more likely one charge. this is picky. i am in a picky mood.

[ldonyo]

i don't mind this either way, but wouldn't setting off a trap make further attempts trap-free? i can see using magic to justify a trap that never expires, but any mechanical trap would only contain a limited number of charges, but more likely one charge. this is picky. i am in a picky mood.

You do have a point, but I think this is to keep people from buffing up their hit points and just opening everything in sight. If you could do that, what good would the Disarm Traps and Pick Locks skills be?

[Narserke]

You do have a point, but I think this is to keep people from buffing up their hit points and just opening everything in sight. If you could do that, what good would the Disarm Traps and Pick Locks skills be?

Well, you wouldn't have to buffer up your hit points to just to open every single trap in sight;)

[onewolf]

the chest would still be locked, it would just be the trap that was no longer active. i see your point, of course. its probably for the best if they leave it the way it is. but bash should still work for those of us who are fighters, and hopefully there will be a "knock" spell for those of us who are mages. i for one cannot stand leaving a chest unopened, regardless of whether i'm a thief or not. especially when its a big fat one in a dragons lair, for example.

[Narserke]

the chest would still be locked, it would just be the trap that was no longer active. i see your point, of course. its probably for the best if they leave it the way it is. but bash should still work for those of us who are fighters, and hopefully there will be a "knock" spell for those of us who are mages. i for one cannot stand leaving a chest unopened, regardless of whether i'm a thief or not. especially when its a big fat one in a dragons lair, for example.

oh i agree completely, i hate leaving them..that's why i get the thief skills, cause you never know that the one chest you decide not to open may have something really sweet..better armor or a better weapon at the very least.

i played as a warrior mainly in the demo, put a few points into thievery, but mainly and for the most party towards melee stuff..so i definately wouldn't mind another option. from what i understand, bash is like a 10% chance of working..it should depend on your strength, i mean i am sure it does..i mean some mage with 14 strenght should not have the same chance to bash as a warrior with 40 or greater strength.

as for knock, i don't think they will add it. what kind of spell would it qualify as in this game? something similar would be nice..maybe you could use nether magic to summon something to open a lock or bash a chest..swarm of termites:) or some spell to cause the chest to age, making it easier to bash.

[onewolf]

hah, interesting idea. Knock isn't specifically important, just some kind of magic based lockpicking, maybe a "Knowledge Mechanica" spell or termites or whatever.

this is tough because i feel like there should be a benefit for being a pure rogue, it seems like they suffer in combat for being rogues so there should be a perk or two. generally, i feel like pickpocket makes sense for this purpose. as far as pure rogues are concerned, i'm still waiting for a game that makes them viable in combat. in NWN they could get pretty nasty as long as you got "hide in plain sight". that skill is great.

when i played through the demo as a martial arts focused thief, i found a great darksword (heavy weapon) and a golden axe, both completely useless to my character. if a fighter can't open that chest, then being a character who can will just be annoying finding stuff you can't use (without becoming "impure").

i was kinda hoping that the items you find will be drawn from your class pool a la NWN, preventing the large number of random items possible from awarding you nice but useless booty.

[Narserke]

hah, interesting idea. Knock isn't specifically important, just some kind of magic based lockpicking, maybe a "Knowledge Mechanica" spell or termites or whatever.

this is tough because i feel like there should be a benefit for being a pure rogue, it seems like they suffer in combat for being rogues so there should be a perk or two. generally, i feel like pickpocket makes sense for this purpose. as far as pure rogues are concerned, i'm still waiting for a game that makes them viable in combat. in NWN they could get pretty nasty as long as you got "hide in plain sight". that skill is great.

when i played through the demo as a martial arts focused thief, i found a great darksword (heavy weapon) and a golden axe, both completely useless to my character. if a fighter can't open that chest, then being a character who can will just be annoying finding stuff you can't use (without becoming "impure").

i was kinda hoping that the items you find will be drawn from your class pool a la NWN, preventing the large number of random items possible from awarding you nice but useless booty.


darksword, golden axe? the best i got was an elven sword. i just found out the other day that drops are random. i personally didn't like the neverwinter system..i mean it seemed that the game was drawing from a really crapy and limit pool..i got the sash of shimering a lot..in fact i can guarantee that i will get that in chapter 1 with every character i play..and i didn't know they drew things on class bases, except for the weapon focus chest..hmmm..anyway i am not saying neverwinter should put super items in the first chapter, just a larger pool of items of similar level.

but anyway it would definately be hard for any non thieves to go through the game without a thief skill, especially if they make every chest locked..which i don't think they should..and the level of the items in the chest you be directly proportionaly to the level of the trap..

[NTJedi]

anyway i am not saying neverwinter should put super items in the first chapter, just a larger pool of items of similar level.


I agree that the pool of items from Neverwinter Nights is not good enough. Ideally they should have a pool of items PLUS items which are randomly generated using the possible variables available.
The only feature I really liked about DIABLO_2 was how they did the items.

[Narserke]

yeah, the item drops in diablo were fine.