This guy...

[kalme]

... surely knows how to aim...

WTF?? (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/wtf.wmv)

...or DOES he? :eek:

[Frag Maniac]

There looks to be no crosshairs enabled, fine shootin' indeed. It'd be nice if the MP guys would drop that easy huh?:D

[PainKilla]

At some points, this looks as if he were using an aimbot, or some aim hack, because of a very similar quick movement onto the creatures, it's near impossible to move your mouse that quick over and have exact aim on a target, so I suppose this would be an act of using "AimBot" or whatever it's called.

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

OMG! Do we know who was this "alien" (in the best meaning)? * thumbs up * Very nice!

There are two things what I noticed anyway. Firstly, there's a "crosshair", but it's only a small white point actually (does it help with aiming?! :D). Secondly, the weapon modifier is activated: stakes catch fire and go straight right from the start, and You can even hear the nice deep BOOM-sounds too after each shots. That second thing surely makes things a bit easier, but still, the guys are all dying in mid air..LOL, that's something! :)

[[ThePact]]

very nice !
so intense in my opinion,
and as PainKilla mentioned, it could be an aimbot, because i have seen how it just stays and gets locked on the target (little movements he reffered to)

but there r people who can indeed be simply that good as well,
so which path this video follows, im not sure.

and yes SYS,
there is an aim icon that i noticed too, a little tiny dot.

cool video overall,

thanx kalme, u should surprise people every once in a while by things like this.;)

[kalme]

There are two things what I noticed anyway. Firstly, there's a "crosshair", but it's only a small white point actually (does it help with aiming?! :D).
Yes, it's a single dot. That's one of the regular crosshairs (/crosshair 20 I think).


Secondly, the weapon modifier is activated: stakes catch fire and go straight right from the start, and You can even hear the nice deep BOOM-sounds too after each shots.
Nice observation. But actually, the weapon modifier is off. The weapon modifier sound has been added as custom sound that is played when an enemy dies.

Actually PainKilla's thoughts went into the right direction. Here's another example:

WTF?? Part 2 (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/wtf2.wmv)

Note that it's recorded on a PK++ server.

[PainKilla]

In the second video, he has an odd way of keeping very smooth on his target, and being able to jump around/walk while doing it... I just don't see this possible. ?.?

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

Ah, I see. And yes, the WM-sound playes after each frag! LOL, to be honest, I've never heard the word "AimBot" before, I think that also tells how new I am in the FPS-World... :) Actually, as I'm watching the videos carefully, it seems that the "crosshair" is quickly and easily moving into position when it's enough close to the enemy...

[PainKilla]

That can be a result of AimBot, I'm not sure if that's the exact name, but what it does is ... Well hard to explain, say any player or moving creature in the game can be painted by the AimBot, not paint like the paint program, but known and memorized so it will immidiately target it for you, instead of you having to target it. This has been a very big hack/bot, because many players use it, in many games. Especialy UT games and CS, but of course they get banned for it when people realise that they're using it.

[kalme]

Ok. I thought I could provoke some more discussions on this topic, but maybe the forums are a bit paralyzed due to the recent... incidents...

Here's the whole story. Ever since I started modding Painkiller, I thought it was possible to make an aimbot for it. When Battle out of H3ll was released, I knew it would be easy to write one. But I didn't take a deeper look into it, because most people think aimbots are a bad thing, and they are right. Once there's an aimbot around, you can't trust anyone you're playing online anymore. Is he really that good? Or is he cheating? Due to that constant suspiciousness everywhere, I have seen a lot of flaming in Q3 after the first aimbots showed up. I generally think those kind of cheats cause a lot of harm to a game's community.

Yesterday, I was bored. First I thought I'd take a look into builing that two weapons mod people requested. A few minutes after I started I came across something that I instantly identified as the key for writing an aimbot. Well, and then I did write it. It took me little more than two hours, and most of the time I spent searching for a stupid maths bug I made. The fact it was SO easy also makes me wonder if there are already some of these out there that we don't know of. Hard to believe no one tried to write one yet.

Here's how it works. Once activated (key press), a snap zone is defined around your crosshair. If an enemy gets into this snap zone, your crosshair is locked upon it. Using instant hit weapons (minigun, machine gun, shotgun etc.) you can bring him down in no time then. Faster than any human player could. After the enemy is killed, the lock is released.

First I thought that would be a nice feature for Powermad. But to my surprise, this also worked in multiplayer with little to no changes. I also added some prediction for the stake gun later that takes the movement of the enemy, the deviation in flight of stakes and the speed of stakes into consideration too. That is meant as proof-of-concept to show the skeptics that it's possible to adjust this hack to work with non-instant hit weapons or other problems like time delay due to your ping.

Since I don't want those cheats to show up in multiplayer (see above), I'm now afraid of releasing it to the public. That's the reason I started this thread. I was hoping I could get some opinions on this topic from all of you. The second video just shows a match against a bot (hack also possible with PK++!), but how would you feel if that was you on the wrong end of the minigun? Going down 0 - 100 against a godlike player who actually just cheats on you?

Discuss!

[PainKilla]

How did I have a feeling it was you? Lol :)

There are many types of aimbots, but they all do pretty much the exact same thing. I'm kind of on the run, but that is pretty cool.

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

Hah, I should've been thought about that! Very nice work, Kalme! You actually made Daniel to be a "cybernetic killer" who never misses an enemy... :D Yeah, it would be a great fun in PM, but the MP-part, huh... * confused * Cheating in MP could cause much more problems...

However, as You said: "Hard to believe no one tried to write one yet." - so true, and now maybe they got the idea, or anyone else will write one soon, even without knowing about Yours. And what then...? I really don't know. If You release it, then that may happen what You mentioned. If You don't..well, maybe someone else will release one in the near future... Who knows? It's a great fun, I liked the videos (so they are Yours), but I really can't say or think more, momently... Anyway, we can't be sure about some guys didn't make little modifications already in the scripts to make their ways easier. This AimBot what You've written is noticable for experts (but You saw, I didn't even think of it), I think, but maybe some players can do much lesser noticable tricks in the script or they already did... I don't know what to say, really, maybe some more competent FPSers will speak better... :)

[guile09]

There are enough people who are fed up with this game, one more problem such as an Aimbot is all they need to be pushed over the edge. I personally wouldn't allow it to get out as I think it spells disaster PK multiplayer. We both know that DC and PCF don't concern themselves with quickly addressing issues in the game and I'm sure they are not about to implement cheat protection. If you look at the downfall of previous games it usually has to do with lack of cheat protection and surplus of cheats. In my opinion, I think allowing your bot to get out is very bad for PK, although it is sad that you were easily able to create one and it's only a matter of time before somebody else does. If DC bothers to read this, which they most likely won't, I think it is something that seriously needs to be addressed.

[PainKilla]

If Kalme releases an aimbot for Painkiller, DC is most likely going to kick him out for good, which isn't a good thing. In my opinion Kalme wouldn't release that, because not only is it cheating for single player, but it's also hacking for multiplayer, which would simply ruin the fun of it. Oh well.

Still, it's pretty nice, but I don't suggest spilling it all out...

[Mr. Q]

First off all if you don't instantly see its an aimbot theres something wrong, never believe that anyone can be so good not even close.
Second thats the main reason i don't play MP anymore. I used to be a good Counterstriker until those cheats ruined it all. First if i spotted those cheaters, recorded demo's etc.. nobody would believe me they even made them admin on servers. Then finaly they put PunkBuster on the servers and suddenly they played like ****. But these days if you search enough you find almost everything on the net and it ruins my fun. I understand the fun it is making those things but its always others who use those cheats, not the programers who made it they just like the challenge of creating.

[kalme]

The worst thing of all is if someone doesn't use such cheats all the time. It's easy to find out if someone plays like shown in the videos. But imagine you're playing in an online league or tournament for example, and your enemy uses an aimbot. Not all the time, but maybe in two, three, five critical situations he uses the bot to home-in a stake. And at the end of the match you think: "****, that was close. I almost had him, but this guy's stakes are really good." What if it works that way? You won't even know he cheated.

Mr.Q, you're right. For me it's the challenge. I don't need to publish this piece of work, but it's interesting to see what is possible. For example, this evening, I teached the bot what "ping" is. It took me just twenty minutes to get this working. I tested it on one of the official CPL servers in the US (I365 CPL 1v1 8). I met someone there waiting for an opponent, and he was friendly enough to test with me for a few minutes. Again, this server uses PK++, and I got the "authenticated" message as I joined without a problem. I ping ~160 to that server, but no matter how hard he tried... it took just a few seconds to bring him down to zero using the minigun. Remember... in PK++ warmup you've got 100 health and 200 armor... I was quite impressed myself.

[Varus77]

It is the absolutely right and great way and work of Kalme to show that AND as a warning that it is possible!

It shows the imperative to make AntiCheat programms and not to think and to mention like PK++: 'Oh - all is good...!'

No...nothing is good. I'm afraid of this possibilities for a long time...
...and they are playing a tournament with many money involved !!!

And no control about this "simple" and wellknown things since older Quake, RtCW, ET times? No PunkBuster? That is really crazy...

like Kalme said: "...And at the end of the match you think: "H ell, that was close. I almost had him, but this guy's stakes are really good." What if it works that way? You won't even know he cheated. ..."

[[ThePact]]

never believe that anyone can be so good not even close

well maybe u should start to beleive that,
becasue i have SEEN people who wouldnt give u a chance to even adjust ur aim on'em...
so, let alone being close, because they r beyond that !

thats called experience in my experience Mr.Q !

[Mr. Q]

I know the really advanced cheaters are very hard to spot (i'm talking Counter Strike because i never played PK online) but back then i spended hours recording demo's and some times they where banned from the servers. But at the end there where to much and becoming to good and even the admins where cheating so they defended each other.
If i could program i would making them myself as a challenge but would never give them on the net unless it was only single player.

[Frag Maniac]

....than regular gameplay to begin with (talking about the first vid, haven't caught the secong one yet), becasue the spawn points are consistently in the same spot, in the first part where they're on the ground.

I agree with guile on the idea of even using or much less making an aimbot. It'll only hurt the game in ways that could spell disaster even for a possible part two of the single player game. If the MP end of it, or even the SP gets inundated with this kind of thing, there just won't be the same mystique or interest in either end of the game.

You gotta wonder if we should even be openly talking about it, and risking giving countless computer buffs ideas that haven't already considered it, especially with all the talk about players being able to make money playing the MP. Obviously the tour is going to guard against that type of thing, but some that may not know that could intend to use it to practice online for a possible next tour.

In my few times playing online, I noticed how some had no trouble fragging people instantly, even though they were hoping frantically. Maybe it's already being implemented by some.

[[ThePact]]

I know the really advanced cheaters are very hard to spot


dear Mr.Q,

u can kid urslef to death if u want to, but it certianly doesnt change the reality that is there, but just know that one day, u will be amazed about how skilled some people can be !
and thats most likely the moment when u'll realize that humans mentality, can possibly be pretty damnWell unbeleivable !

take care.;)

[[ThePact]]

I noticed how some had no trouble fragging people instantly, even though they were hoping frantically. Maybe it's already being implemented by some.

well i think aimbot fo rPK already does exist, afterall there r people who have coding skills and dont go to any forums to write anything or letting anyone know about what they do.
PK is a FPS type of game and the next thing that comes to mind for alot of people, is "how to get an aimbot for it"

but then again, thats what exactly i was trying to get this dear member to understand, and well, now u too frag,
there r people who r amazingly skilled,
actually its all about 2 things only !
"aiming" and "timing" !
get perfect at those 2 elements and go there frag Maniacly !
and it got so obvious for me since i did alot of railing in Quake III online, and i could actualy spec people and c from their view and discover how they play, besides, they were more than few people who were DamnGood ! many more !
basicly, the same idea of timing and aimin was going on over there as well,
it was like a "one shot" type of game, as u would either miss or frag.
it was a very special and sweet mode called "instaunlagg"

anyway, the point is that some people can be close to aimbot yes .

[Frag Maniac]

"anyway, the point is that some people can be close to aimbot yes."

...especially when you repeatedly see the same guys get out of jams with people in all directions. I don't care what anyone says about timing and aim, you really don't have much time to perfect timing and aim when it's happening that fast from all directions.

Some are also hopping noticably faster and higher in MP, that may be partly due to ping differences, but I suspected some of it wasn't.

[ougabooga]

Well,this news sure isn't a surprise but VERY dissappointing cause there are coders/script writers that make personal/clan stuff.

I don't really now what scripts are other then like special binds & stuff

I've gone through my share of games where cheaters appear & i disappear,NOT GOOD to hear it can happen in PK since i was under the impression it couldn't be done in PK:((

Also there ARE playes that CAN come close to aim bot statis but you can tell it's not an aimbot if you watch,i don't care how good you are,there's always sum "jerkiness"
I guess my question is what bothers me more? an aim bot user or a radar user?
Most bot users get careless but radar users are usually more consistant & sneaky.

If bots are RELEASED for PK it's a SURE death for the game EVEN tho there aren't a tonne of ppl playing MP.I guess my final thought is i hope they have PB or sumtin for their next PK if there is 1.

Nice vids BTW

[*****]

Well from the 1st post and video it was quite obvious Kalme made it :P

This game advantage was inevitable :D

[RichmanRush]

definite aimbot in both videos. No doubt about it. Kill the cheatin hacking M-Fer! :D

Sad to see that it's 'out'... only takes one person to get it and use it, and it'll be everywhere. Also don't forget there are others out there who do nothing BUT find hacks in games thus the ongoing anti-cheat wars. IMO, it leads to the eventual downfall of any game. But knowing how to spot one will definitely aid you in knowing who's good and who's hacking, and always log their GUID's, IP's, nicks etc and report them (given the game has some sort of anti-cheat support).

[Frag Maniac]

It was P'killa that got off on that note, and making it a topic is a bad idea, as guile pointed out. It can only HURT the game. Odd that it was brought up by someone that claims to never cheat, and seems to know a great deal about it too.:rolleyes:

[Bjossi]

... surely knows how to aim...

WTF?? (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/wtf.wmv)

...or DOES he? :eek:

I don´t think a human can aim that well unless he spends 3/4 of the day all days many weeks just to practice aiming. ;)

[PainKilla]

We kinda already said it's aimbot :P
True though, nobody can aim that good, unless they're japanese and sit daily practicing and studying aim, similar to what you sid.

[[U2F]_TG]

Since I don't want those cheats to show up in multiplayer (see above), I'm now afraid of releasing it to the public. That's the reason I started this thread. I was hoping I could get some opinions on this topic from all of you.

Bullshit.!

A) Of course you shouldn't release this to the public.. (in fact just mentioning the proof of concept is something that could be frowned upon)
B) You merely started this thread to impress people.. (and you did.. ;) )

[Frag Maniac]

"A) Of course you shouldn't release this to the public.. (in fact just mentioning the proof of concept is something that could be frowned upon)"

I don't know about the just starting this thread to impress people, that statement may be a bit out of line, but I do think there is a difference between offering helpfull and non injurious tech help to those that need it, versus showing off tech skills to the point of putting the game itself and those that've worked hard on it in danger.;)

[kalme]

Ok...

first of all, this thread wasn't made to impress anyone. I wanted to impress people with a new Powermad release that has this stuff build-in :D. But like I said before, I figured out that this new feature also works in multiplayer, and then I really got unsure about the whole thing. And from the feedback I got so far I see that my feeling was right -- most people don't want to see this in public and are afraid of the consequences too.

But I don't think we should stop talking about aimbots. This thread is helpful, because it shows that Painkiller is vulnerable. In fact I think its cheat protection is the worst of the games I have seen so far. Remaining silent about that is the wrong thing. Something has to be done. And to those who think that it's better to stop discussing it (because almost no one knows about it yet), I have to say: security by obscurity never worked before. And a look at the scripts in Painkiller makes clear that Painkiller doesn't even have a lot of "obscurity". I want a LOT of people to know that this is possible, that it only takes a few hours for someone with a little programming skills and that it can't be detected even by PK++ servers. The more people know about this, the more complaints will be raised to fix it.

[kalme]

Btw...

http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/wtf3.wmv

That's the file of the online test, almost forgot that. The guy has megahealth and golden armor.

[Frag Maniac]

It seemed to start as just a cool vid, then someone said it looked like a bot was used, another said it can only hurt the game, etc.

Where I lost track is in someone saying that they thought you were intent on writing a script for a bot, which is where the talk turned paranoid if I'm correct.

I think you're right that something needs to be done about it, but most of us are laymen compared to you in terms of computer skills. If you say there's no way for it to be detected, what really can be done about it?

It would be great if someone with scripting skills could write a detection program that we could install. Perhaps those of us that don't have such skills could at least petition DC to keep close eye on the servers running the game, but the way they've lacked response in the past, would it really make a difference?

There isn't really that many players playing it online, and most of the attention has been about the world tour, which is played under tight security isn't it?

[kalme]

I think you're right that something needs to be done about it, but most of us are laymen compared to you in terms of computer skills. If you say there's no way for it to be detected, what really can be done about it?

It would be great if someone with scripting skills could write a detection program that we could install. Perhaps those of us that don't have such skills could at least petition DC to keep close eye on the servers running the game, but the way they've lacked response in the past, would it really make a difference?
It can be detected, that's sure. But unfortunately it's not done with writing some scripts. I won't go into details, but I think that PCF needs to do that.


There isn't really that many players playing it online, and most of the attention has been about the world tour, which is played under tight security isn't it?
Correct. But there already were some online tournaments (PKEuro for example), and there also are online leagues where no one has control of the computers used.

[kalme]

Sorry, had to rename the movie files on the server. Here are the new links:

Movie 1 (singleplayer) (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/m1.wmv)
Movie 2 (multiplayer locally, botmatch) (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/m2.wmv)
Movie 3 (multiplayer online) (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/m3.wmv)

[Frag Maniac]

...one of the reasons he did so well with the chaingun, is that he had full ammo (999). I also watched it full screen, fuzzy, but enough to tell that the crosshair dot does do a quick micro adhustment to the monsters when he lines it up slightly off sometimes, indicating a definate aim bot being used. If you'll notice the crosshairs always seem to line up on the same exact part of the monster's bodies too.

[fleabay]

I admit I have cheated at an online game.

Age Of Empires. I had a cheat that let me bring out the shooting cars and babys with guns and for some reason, a few people got pissed.

Pow, big mama. ROFLMAO.

Sorry, I won't do it anymore, but I will say that I didn't try to hide the fact I was cheating. It was pretty obvious. I mean it was blatently obvious.

[Frag Maniac]

...THAT excuse before.:rolleyes:

My first and still most played online game was MOHAA Spearhead. I was told it was heavily exploited by cheaters, and before buying the game got on a French server late night once via the Stalingrad demo I had installed.

There were players using the Manon character alot, using what appeared to be aim bots, never missing reguardles of weapon or distance. Insulting me further with the built in taunts such as "I've seen French school girls shoot better", in a French accent of course.

Then some guys joined the game using cheats that allowed them to hop way up on all the rooftops, and they were using some kind of invulnerability/God mod. They'd not only taunt you, they'd jump down right in front of you if they knew you were shooting at them, and pistol whip you in the head, just to rub it in.

Oddly enough that's the only time I recall anyone using noticable cheats while playing it online, and after purchasing the game, I was able to do pretty well, and often scored at the top of my team, if not the top of the roster, after getting warmed up.

Maybe the trick is just to avoid the European servers, they probably know by the ping when they're playing a yank and take every opportunity to get us to leave.:D

Then again, one of the reasons I may have not had continued problems was due to my usually playing on the German side, once I got to know the game. They usually have stronger teams, and I liked their machine guns better.:)

[Artas1984]

I admit I have cheated at an online game.

Age Of Empires. I had a cheat that let me bring out the shooting cars and babys with guns and for some reason, a few people got pissed.

Pow, big mama. ROFLMAO.

Sorry, I won't do it anymore, but I will say that I didn't try to hide the fact I was cheating. It was pretty obvious. I mean it was blatently obvious.

I remember when i played age of empires a long time ago, and remember that there was a cheat which allows "dodge vipers" in the game...ha ha

Now, about cheating in MP..
As you all noticeed, i am flamy about such things, but ain't there something like CHdeath in CS, so like in pk? (i don't play CS)
What the **** are the questions about those vids: of course there was an aimbot! How could you thought of a good player? That is just ridiculous!
A modify in scripts to recognize aimbots?
Don't know about such things, but i guess someone here could create just a little thing called "aimfootprince" - a program, on which pk could be loaded on top, like people load pk on fraps..
So, with this program, when crosshair is enabled, there could be enabled a footprince after aiming an enemy, what i am trying to say - everytime you move the crosshair, it's path would leave a linear stain, which would be divided in segments - one move in 2D axis/per 1/10 second.
With such thing in demo that would be slowly viewed, you could recognize does the player/bot moves his cross mathemathecly in axis or does his cross "jump" and catches good moments to fire.
Even the best players can not catch target with cross in 1/10 second precision.
Of course, the target movement also should be footprinced.

[fleabay]

http://familyfun.go.com/Resources/Features/Education/famf38creativity_footprince.jpg
Priceless

[SOULTAKER]

Oh yeah that's no big deal... that's how accomplished, accurate and efficient I am normally. :cool:

(hehe, that’s a joke before I get my *** flamed for being too cocky)

I realise my opinion comes late, but I’d like to share it anyway. In reference to multiplayer, the less scrupulous folk would no doubt use this for evil and that’d deter honest players from playing. After all you can’t “win” against someone who’s operating in godmode right? And it’s all about winning... still it makes for great comedy :D

The true appeal of MP is keeping your title, staying on top, defeating all your new would be challengers. Even Tyson fell from glory... so make way for the next “super heavy weight champion of the world” or at least on this server, LOL!

There’s cheating in all types of “games”, whether physical or mental. In “sports” you have steroids, dirty players, bribery etc., in mind games, like beating a casino at Black jack, there’s card counting, and naturally a sharp programmer can side-step a computers rules. :cool:

Honestly I had never heard the term “aimbot” prior to reading this thread :o and after seeing Kalme’s work in action, it makes logical sense to me that someone would be trying this out online. But it’s only a matter of time before the players expertise is questioned, or it gets noticed by an admin. No?

Still I’m all for inventing new things, and personally I think Kalme’s “snap zone code” is a positive development. (a benefit in the long run if utilized for the right thing)

Regarding perfect, faultless game play... I admit that it’s exceptionally rare, but I still believe “anything is possible”. I’ve witnessed people do things they’ll never be able to reproduce in a million years... :eek: the planets must have been aligned in some mad configuration or something, because their feats were superhuman, nevertheless they were very real.

And as for the crosshairs debate... if you’re using a “telescopic sight” then yes I can appreciate them, however I prefer either nothing at all, or the smallest (least noticeable) one, in PK’s case the “centre point”, just a plain old dot, much harder to hit the bullseye, but you’ll get used to it eventually, and personally I think you improve your hand eye coordination.

[spyware]

A detector would be nice, Doesn't matter I'll play anyway.
I'm gonna cheat by practicing on them cheaters.hehe

[T'krau]

I admit that I have not read every word of every post here, but -

This is why I RARELY play on-line, period. I remember being online w/someone I had never heard of (not hard to do), and he proceeded to wipe the floor with my tongue. Repeatedly. Later, I learned about aimbots.

Whle I can and do appreciate the position kalme states (to release or not, and I don't think he's doing this to gain attention...), it's not like it's the only one around. And, frankly, I'm curious to see it.

kalme, if you do release, I want a copy. If you don't, I don't blame you at all.

[DoomAxe]

Well.. let me just give a little history lesson.

There is a game called Delta Force 2, which provides free online servers via NovaWorld. It came out in 1999. I religiously played that game online for years until cheats started to show up. I had finally gotten myself a 10mb LAN network connection, and as you all know, the guy with the least framerate wins.

To be somewhat of a summary, I became a DF2 god, blowing away anybody. I lost only three matches in four months with that connection. However, becuase of the overridden cheat system, and the availability of these cheats, my talent was never reconized becuase of those cheats. In the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, for the guy like me, who put thousands upon thousands of hours working my skill to be so **** good, then to just get labeled a cheater becuase of my skill, was extremely disappointed and irritating.

If I was a coder, I'd probably find gratitude in being able to manipulate code to create and Aimbot, and any such other thing becuase it'd be cool to know you were able to manipulate a game. But to released something like that so others can skip gaining skill and learning the game, becuase they only care about their kill count, will inevitably destroy any online gaming community that PK has right now.

After six years of playing DF2 online, I finally stopped playing becuase of the immature BS i was getting about being "too good" and "too fast." I guess I'm just old-fashioned when it comes to playing online... you're good becuase you put the time and effort into it, not becuase you altered the game to give you false abilities.

Kalme, nothing agaisn't you, man. Nothing at all. This is just my personal experiences, and I'd prefer you not release the Aimbot, becuase I sincerely feel that it'll ruin gameplay forever. Howerver, if you were able to develop a Detector (like mentioned above) that anybody could install, or the host, then that is fine. Thats like releasing the antidote, then the virus. If we have a way to catch the cheats, then release all you want. But, even so, it'll be more of a headache than I'm willing to deal with.

Sorry about the long post... :o

[MacheteLover]

I've always had a sore spot regarding cheaters. The only games I play online are closed games, password protected. Only my friends get in, none of them are cheaters, and they now that I know where they live... : )

I recently quit playing a MMORPG called Dark Throne, because the game was being completely domintated by cheaters and people using balance exploits. But even in that game, I came to know some honest and honorable players.

If you can find players you trust, the games get so much better. And if you're playing in a Lan game, at an office or a Lan cafe, then it's even better. If someone doesn't believe I can arc rockets around corners in Half-Life, I can bloody well show them. (that happens to be my party trick, none of my friends have mastered that one.)