under bridge in castle level

[complit63]

i know theres 3 holy items under the bridge the 1 where u start the level...i cannot get those cuz i dont understand how to jump it....the only thing i saw was to walk on the wall to get to it but it wont work....thats why this is so annoying cuz to make this big a deal for secrets is crazy....and they make some **** jumps almost impossible

[Frag Maniac]

...on the ledge to the right, and scaling down the ladder to where the first secret is. Here's some pics of me getting them, but I only use the ladder on the way back up, it's harder and not necessary to take it going down.

Standing on the ledge facing the ladder.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/14/shot00013bp.jpg

Move forward along the ledge and outward slightly just before the ladder, jumping is not necessary.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/7113/shot00116sr.jpg

Continue mid air along side the wall.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/240/shot00129zu.jpg

Aim inward with your mouse just as you get to the opening.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/4682/shot00131uu.jpg

Similar technique for the others, jump slightly outward just before the wall.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/7204/shot00141sc.jpg
Stay along side the bridge in mid air.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/958/shot00161bb.jpg
Then aim inward with mouse as you get to the opening.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/33/shot00215xn.jpg

Now the tough part, you should have been quicksaving before each jump, but definately here, before trying this one. Same as jumping around the walls previously, but this time you have to land right in the center of the ladder, facing towards it after curving your trajectory, in order to stick to it.

Here I'm mid air curving out, then in towards the ladder.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/3218/shot00282iu.jpg
Then climbing up it after.
http://img135.echo.cx/img135/766/shot00294ta.jpg

It usually takes me at least a few tries to do it this way. I've got another method using the PK laser shot into the ground and swinging around to the ladder like a peton and rope, but it's a bit complex to do if you're not adept at using the Painkiller weapon.

[complit63]

is this the method for all 3 jumps?....cuz i was able to get the 1st holy item using the ladder....thats wasnt hard.....the hard thing was getting the other 2 holy items....i cant walk on the walls cuz i fall down....now your saying to jump then face the holy item with your mouse?....when i jump am i supposed to keep the jump button pressed while i turn myself around?

[Frag Maniac]

...down the ladder, that's not the easiest method, so I know now that you have the skill, you just need to get the technique right.

You don't have to hold the jump key down to get around the walls, just make the jump just before the wall, the aim outward, then inward with the mouse. It can be done with only one jump per Holy Item, with no bunnyhopping for momentum.

Here's a link to a video showing the technique, it's actually easier than what you did with the ladder, and I used to do it the same way this guy does in the video, which adds an extra wall to jump around.

http://www.painkillerhell.com/index.php?vid=16

[complit63]

i saw that video last night.....i still cant do it...can u show me more pics or tell me how to do it....its hardddddd

[Frag Maniac]

...you are doing it, then I can maybe figure what you're getting hung up on.

I'll try to explain it one more time, but look at these screenshots on the same site, they're very similar to the ones I already showed you, and I really can't give you anything better than that to look at. The video actually is capable of showing it better because it shows the whole jump fluidly and non stop. With pictures you can only shoot so many on your way thru the jump, kind of an effect similar to "shutter lag" in cameras. I'm not set up to make videos myself, but if I was, they probably wouldn't be much better if at all than the one you've already seen. http://www.painkillerhell.com/index.php?screen=16

Are you holding down the W key after lining up on the edge of the bridge, then hitting the jump key just before the wall while simultaneously aiming the mouse out slightly, then back in? Also, very important to mouse look upwards while in the air, in other words, your mouse hand should not just move side to side, it should be an arcing motion, outward, forward, and inward, in one fluent move. Just try to imagine your mouse hand actually IS Daniel, and apply the same motion to it as he would have to use. The only difference of course is not having to lift it off the mouse pad, as your jump key provides the upward movement.

I know it's very frustrating to get hung up on one seemingly simple part of a game, there are two games I own that I can't progress thru because of one little part towards the end of them that is very difficult for me, yet others have managed to do it. One of them was described as very difficult and involving a lot of trial and error even by the person that wrote a walkthrough for it though.

This is a jump that is more technique than skill though, and I think once you understand that it will become second nature for you. There is a similar jump in City On Water, involving jumping around a wall to get a secret ammo stash, and all the secrets must be obtained to get the card, so don't give up, you'll need to use this type of jump again. I can think of other places in both PK and BOoH where this type of jump is needed as well, but just try to be patient with it and stay calm. Nervousness and frustration while playing can make these things seem harder than they really are.;)

[complit63]

i am really about to get pissed off here.....how the heck u supposed to do this?....when i try jumping all i do is fall down the cliff....tell me step by step how to do this.....that video dont show me nothin uz how the heck do u stay up there?.....if u jump off your gonna fall down.....i do not get this at all and getting very annoyed here.....

[complit63]

ok i got another holy item on the bridge....i did it by goin back up the ladder and going down to another holy item....that was easy...but my problem here is staying in the air for the last 1...i understand that when u jump u make sure the mouse is pointing at the wall and going in....but i cant stay in the air frag...im talkin about u know after i got the holy item where im at...see on top of the bridge u jump down and in...in this way u dont jump down...u go across to get the other 1....

[[U2F]_TG]

i know theres 3 holy items under the bridge the 1 where u start the level...i cannot get those cuz i dont understand how to jump it....the only thing i saw was to walk on the wall to get to it but it wont work....thats why this is so annoying cuz to make this big a deal for secrets is crazy....and they make some **** jumps almost impossible


Practise bunny jumping on the stand..

Do this for 10 minutes..

Re-enter level... et voila ..one of the easiests secrets to get to ingame :up:
Just remember to save after each succesfull jump.. ;)



The jumps you will need to get all secrets in this level are much more exciting/excruciating btw.. :D

[Bjossi]

I found that jump quite easy to get the 3 holy items.
But I can´t help you, too hard to explain for me.

[Frag Maniac]

...by going back up the ladder to jump down into the other secret area from above. The only reason I didn't mention that before, as I did think about it, was I knew that would still leave you having to jump around the wall, not once, but twice to get back from the other two holy spots.

Right now, THIS is what I'm more concerned about: "i understand that when u jump u make sure the mouse is pointing at the wall and going in".

This sounds to me like you misinterpreted my explaination of the technique described earlier. You sound as if you're so concerned about falling, that you aim inward as soon as you jump, and therefore may be hugging the wall, which would cause you to not get enough height or distance to get there.

You have to line up on the edge of the bridge to minimize how much outward you have to go first, then be sure you free float outward, not hugging the wall, then DO NOT point inward until you've cleared the separating wall between the holys.

In mid air, as I said before, you should ideally be along side the wall, but NOT touching it. These textures (surfaces) in the game react very sensitively to the touch, so be carefull of that.

Also, make sure you are moving forward the whole time, before, and during the jump. You can't just stand in one spot in front of the wall then jump around it.

As I said before, if you have the skill to use the ladder that easily, I think you can do this.

I also have a suggestion I didn't think of before. You can if you choose use the area on top of the bridge between the end of it and the trigger point that spawns the dogs to practice that jump. Make note of how you move in the air when you jump, mouse look outward, then inward. Do it first by looking at the ground to compare it against your movement, then do it while mouse looking up as you jump. A sort of up (jump key), out, (mouse>right), in (mouse<left), while simultaneously swooping your mouse look up.

This I would do first just on the middle part of the bridge, then try it on the ledge just in front of the ladder, imagining the ladder is the wall you need to jump around. Make note of whether you swoop outward just enough to be slightly beyond the edge of the ledge when you're in air.

Hopefully this will give you an idea of how much movement in mid air you can get just from a single jump. If so, I'm sure it can give you more confidence in actually doing the jump. Good luck, but remember, it's mostly technique, not luck or skill.

[complit63]

yes but what im saying is i dont go near the edge of the wall so im not touching it....so as im moving forward then when i jump im supposed to stay in mid air right?....i try to jump and even hold the forward movement key but i keep falling down....if i stay in the air when i jump i can do it successfully....

[Frag Maniac]

...as I suggested, using the ladder as a reference point?

Yes, obviously you need to stay in mid air momentarily to do this, a sort of Michael Jordan "hang time" of you will.

How close are you to getting past the wall you're tryin to get around at the point you fall?

I don't know what kind of system you're running the game on, buy you need fairly good frame rates to do good jumping, although typically that's for harder jumps.

Try hitting the tilde key (~) while in the menu, and type showfps 1 into the console, this will show your frame rates in frames per second when you go back to the game. Ideally you want to have above 70 FPS for good jumping.

[complit63]

will u tell me how to stay in the **** air....i go near the ledge and press the forward key and jump key and all i do is FALL OFF......how the heck can u stay in the air?......its impossible....and how can u press the forward key and jump key plus move the mouse.....its too much to do....all this for a card...

[complit63]

oh i get like over 180 FPS so thats ok.....hey would it work if i used the card that makes the world slower?.....then i can do it slowly....id have to replay the level though...i dont mind cuz it was an easy level....cuz i keep trying and i cannot do it...its a little hard to understand what u tell me unless its demonstrated....so how about the card?

[Frag Maniac]

...would be the speed card, although every time I've used it, there doesn't seem to be much speed increase, that's probably why it's only $100 to place it.

The ones that slow the environment down would not likely help, they really only effect your play time, and the speed of moving objects/monsters around you.

I will look in the config file to see if there is anything related to character speed that could be adjusted, but it's likely something in the LScripts, which I don't have an extractor for, and it takes entry level programming skills to understand how to use them, which I lack.

Very good FPS btw, sounds like you have a good system.

(EDITED) Nothing in the config file to make character speed faster, or jump higher.

Try the speed card though, if you're coming close to getting there with any of your jumps, it might be just enough extra to get you there.;)

(EDIT PRT 2) I just tried the jump with the speed card, and at about 45 FPS lower than you, due the settings I use. It's noticably easier I think using it.

One word of caution though, it makes you move forward faster, so you have to be more carefull not to brush the arched wall in front of you as you initiate the jump, as you will be moving forward faster while jumping.

Give it a try with speed, it's cheap to place anyway, and makes more of a difference than I thought it would. In fact, it should give you a boost on any jump you attempt.

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

Complit63, Cyody saw this thread, and He made a nice Secret-video about the 1st Secret in "Castle". He suggested me to show that to You, since it may help a lot. This method requires only 3 hazardous jumps, since He accesses the Secret from near the bridge... Watch it, I hope this helps too!

"Castle" - Secret #1, Method by Cyody (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/cyody/castle_secret_1.wmv)

You can also watch Kalme's video (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller/files/castle-secret-1.wmv) about that Secret... :)

Anyway, I think Frag's comments are also nice and very helpful, definitely * thumbs up * for that! :)

[complit63]

I QUIT........no matter what i do it dont work....everytime i try this i fall down....ive watched videos so screw it.....im not wasting 2 weeks to gt 1 stupid card....thanks for everyones help....like i said when i look at videos it seems when u move forward your in the right place...i give up....i do not like jumping and this is the dumbest game for it.....id just rather shoot enemies and find things without jumping

[Luigibuddy]

I QUIT........no matter what i do it dont work....everytime i try this i fall down....ive watched videos so screw it.....im not wasting 2 weeks to gt 1 stupid card....thanks for everyones help....like i said when i look at videos it seems when u move forward your in the right place...i give up....i do not like jumping and this is the dumbest game for it.....id just rather shoot enemies and find things without jumping

You can always use Powermad if you're having tons of trouble when it comes to getting a card.

[Frag Maniac]

...wanted to use a cheat you'd have said it by now, so I resisted mentioning it.

I've got one more thing to add though Complit, this sentence from you has me thinking something that did not occur to me:

"i go near the ledge and press the forward key and jump key and all i do is FALL OFF"


If all you do is fall off, with no rise in height after jumping, you are not hitting the jump key while still on the bridge. This can happen often with jumps where you're trying to jump as close to an edge as possible, you get a "dead jump", with no rise.

It's definately sounding like you're too annoyed to persist with this if the above suggestion does not help you, in that case I would recommend just using Powermad, at least until you can forget the stress it's caused you. You can always go back and try it some other time without the mod.

[complit63]

look youd be mad to if u kept tryin somethin but cannot make it....see its kindve hard to explain to you what i exactly do....ok im on the ledge of the bridge ok looking at the opening to where i need to go....now at the ledge and not touching it i just press the forward key ok?....now when i do that i try and turn around to face that hole but i fall....i do not understand exactly where u need to jump....do i start jumpin when im in the air?....do i jump before i start moving forward?....thats the 1 here....ive looked at videos and pictures but still cannot do it...cuz when u move forward you are in the air...then u have to turn to face that hole...and then probably jump....i do not know if u understand me here and im sorry if you dont....but im trying here....just fraustrated frag thats all...i dont mean what i say here....

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

Complit, don't try that jump at such hazardous area first. The key is changing Daniel's trajectory while He's in the air. It's impossible for us humanoids in real life, although some animals with tales can do it... So..somehow Daniel also has this ability... :D

Again, try this in a safe place first... Just start and keep pressing SPACE, and then press FORWARD..Daniel will jump forward, actually this was a "preheated" jump (He jumps farer with "preheating"). Forward means exactly to where He's looking. This time You didn't change His trajectory in the air, so He just jumped straight forward..nothing special, You already know this... But now, try the same, but shorty after You pressed FORWARD, quickly move the mouse to the RIGHT or LEFT! Did You see what happened? Daniel didn't make a usual straight forward jump, but something different! Now this is the trick: Daniel will jump again, but He won't make a straight forward-jump this time..He will fly to the right or left, depends on Your will. The point is that You still can control Him in mid-air, and You can tell him where to look with the mouse..and He will fly towards that direction (where He's looking)... So first You just try make some jumps like this in safe areas. And then, this method works at the Secret too, and once You understand this method, You won't have any problem anymore with any Secrets like that...

For accessing the Secret, like Cyody did... It's the same: You can control Daniel in mid-air. You can tell Him where to look with the mouse, and You even can make Him to fall forward or even backward, with the direction-keys. You also can try these things: just fall down from somewhere, and try to control Daniel..You'll see, it works, and You can actually fall to where You want...

You just maybe don't feel these things yet, but later You will. Just don't give up, You'll surely do it once... :)

[complit63]

this will not work....i kept pressing space then the forward key and i FALL...he is not staying in the air....am i supposed to do it quicky?...cuz it seems to me if u keep jumping and pressing the forward key he does not stay in the air....he starts droppin down

[Frag Maniac]

...forward along edge of bridge, jump from edge of bridge while moving forward, and the pre submitted descriptions of using the mouse. If you're not jumping up with this technoque, you're going OFF the edge of the bridge BEFORE making the jump.

2) Preheat, as Sys showed, by standing near the wall, jumping in place to get up jump inertia, then simutaneously jump/forward, with said mouse movements.

3) POWERMAD, before you get to "mad" yourself. I don't mean at all to be sarcastic either Complit. It's not worth getting too frustrated about if you are having enough difficulty at it to want to give up. Either use Powermad, or don't worry about the card. Other than that, it's just two Holys, about $200, which you could make up gibbing anyway.

If you feel you absolutely need the card, which is actually one of the best ones (Rage), then you can still get it by no clipping thru the bridge walls with PM.

I have hung in there with you buddy, and haven't regreted any of it, but at this point I'm worried you might be feeling ill over it. Take care man, and do what you feel is best.;)

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

Only this will work there at the Secret: You can reach the next and next area by that jump (like Cyody did in the video). And You also need to control Daniel in the air, when You're falling down into the Secret. Yes You must do it quicky, or Daniel won't reach the next place. But again, practise these kind of jumps in a safe place first, and then try the Secret. Again, You can control Daniel in mid-air and changing His jump's direction, and sometimes this is necessary... BTW, I also hated that Secret earlier, really: I also often fell of, when I wanted to reach the next area for getting the next Holy Item... :)

I agree with Frag anyway: if it just doesn't work for You this time, You can use PowerMad for getting that Secret. Later You still can get it without PM, if You want...

[complit63]

um how do i get powermad anyway?

[SYS]

...a voice from the darkness.....

The answer to Your question is The Answer Himself - Kalme. :D You can get it from Kalme's PainKiller-Site (http://www.kalme.de/painkiller)... :)

[Frag Maniac]

...he left that job for our freaky fly boy Varus.:p

[complit63]

the powermad program only goes upto patch 1.35.....i cant use it then....i have 1.64.....oh well

[complit63]

sorry my mistake....i found the latest 1.....now im lookin....it says num3 key tells u where the secrets are but it dont give them to you.....theres a fly mode on there too....can someone please explain how to do this please?....and how do you toggle the buttons on and off?....i dont wanna chest here but i just need to get these holy items to get the card

thanks
Lloyd

[complit63]

nevermind guys....i figured it out....thanks

[Luigibuddy]

sorry my mistake....i found the latest 1.....now im lookin....it says num3 key tells u where the secrets are but it dont give them to you.....theres a fly mode on there too....can someone please explain how to do this please?....and how do you toggle the buttons on and off?....i dont wanna chest here but i just need to get these holy items to get the card

thanks
Lloyd

Right Shift+F to go into no clip mode. And once again to turn it off.

[Frag Maniac]

...but you can also hold down the right mouse button to look around, or hold both buttons to move up/down while no clipping.

[complit63]

i figured that part out myself.....wasnt in the directions but i eventually figured it out and got the holy item and back up the ladder....i dont like to cheat but at least i killed everything before i did this....cheating is if your really stuck and cant progress in the game without doing something and cheating to do it....ive never cheated....1st time ive had to use a cheat...it may not be right but life aint fair sometimes....

[Frag Maniac]

...you have to be the one that's held out the longest of anyone I've seen, without even asking about cheats. Through all your frustration you just kept asking for advice instead, and I admire that, it takes a lot of emotional control to not just give up when you're frustrated like that.

When you're done playing through the game you can always go back and try again. I don't know if you tried the Speed card, I was surprised how much difference it made. It's worth giving a shot some time if you get the notion, but I'd just have fun with the game for now and leave that for later.;)