VERY important question!

[metadethrax]

I want to ask the people at Dreamcatcher a question, and all I demand is a fair answer: I am looking forward for this game since I hade read that DW Bradley is behing this, I liked the demo, it had a lot of potential even things needed much improvement and I was very happy when I found out today that the game is gold. However, even though I am expecting a lot from this game, I want to know first, before I even buy it, if it is Starforce protected. I know Dreamcatcher is a long term Starforce client, even though the games had a lot of technical problems due to Starforce, they kept using it.
I am not going to buy another SF3 protected game, even this means that I won't be able to play Dungeon Lords. Thanx you!

[hacknslash]

I hope they dont use starforce. Talk about a pain in the butt. The first and last game I bought that used starforce wouldnt even install for me. I had to buy a new dvd rom drive to get it to work. And after that my roommate bought a game that used it and he still cant get that game to install.

[metadethrax]

Don't tell me...I bought Syberia 2 more than a year ago, I had a lot of problems with it installing (my Teac DVD-ROM wasn't able to pass the protection), then I gave Starforce another chance buying Second Sight for PC, again a lot of problems. Sadly, even though Superpower 2 was turned to ashes in reviews due to int's problems regarding Starforce (check Gamespot's review), Dreamcatcher/ TAC still persist in it's stubborness and uses SF3. I wanted to buy Still Life, but when I found out that even the demo, who is supposed to be free, was SF3 protected, I swore to God that no SF3 game will get to my PC ever. I really hope
Dungeon Lords will skip this scumware called SF3, it will be a pity if not, there are few RPGs on the market right now.

[NecroViolator]

Starforce destroys your Hardware.
Its makes the Hardware read invisible data that is in a track that the Hardware is NOT supposed to go.
Hope you understand this... :)

[Tauschitz1]

Starforce is an abomination. I have been playing computer games since the Ultima and Wizardry days, and I love everyhting D.W. has done, but I will not buy this game if it is using Starforce 3; and this coming from a guy who has a low tech computer without the ability (or desire) to copy anything that does not fit on a 3.5" floppy disc!!

[ravenflt]

NEWS FLASH FOR J00!

Its been a while ago since Starforce 3 was been cracked, so all known starforce v3 protected games are now cracked by just using the general Starforce v3 crack utility and image.

I doubt therefor they would use a CD protection that has already been cracked and released to the public domain. The stupid thing is that anyone can use the general SF3 crack & image to play *ANY* SF3 protected game (LOL). And even more stupid is that the SF3 crack isnt even illegal due to the crackers actually making a work around for the entire SF3 code and dont even have to touch the actuall game files whatsoever.

Hint: If you have stocks in SF, i would suggest you start selling cheap ;)

[Brainsic]

Thats good to hear.

Its always kind of funny when the "protection" messes with legit users more than the piraters.
Alot of people have a problem with HL and Stream like that.

[metadethrax]

Guys, hold on, this is NOT a cracking discussion...I don't care about SF3 being or not being cracked, I want to buy the game, not to download it, but in case it uses Sf3 I am not going to buy it because it really jerks the legit buyers. All I wanted to know is about the possibility of Dungeon Lords to use SF3, not cracking, warez or stuff like that.

[Tenka]

Guys, hold on, this is NOT a cracking discussion...I don't care about SF3 being or not being cracked, I want to buy the game, not to download it, but in case it uses Sf3 I am not going to buy it because it really jerks the legit buyers. All I wanted to know is about the possibility of Dungeon Lords to use SF3, not cracking, warez or stuff like that.

Technically even if you buy the game you can make a backup with a CD-Burner and play it using the crack, thus saving the hard times with CD-reads and damage to hardware.

However like you stated, this isnt a cracking forum, I'm not sure if discussing this here is appropriate.. >final words on the matter.

[metadethrax]

Yeah, but I STILL want to hear an official answer to my question from Dreamcatcher: is Dungeon Lords gonna use Starforce 3 or not? Thanx, again, for your further answer, Dreamcatcher!

[Brainsic]

Sorry,just making an observation.

[araczynski]

last time i checked developers/publishers don't exactly give out that kind of info to anyone, if they do, that's just one less minute that a 'cracker' has to waste, not that it makes a bit of difference in the end, but why make it 'easier' for them.

so i think the only way you'll find out what it does/doesn't use is if someone will post it on here after they install it.

personally i have yet to have any problems with any 'protections' that come out, with my hardware i mean, and my drives see a lot of discs. of course i'm not saying that there's one game out there that doesn't have my drive's name on it :)

[txa1265]

I am very fortunate not to have had any issues with Painkiller on either of my computers ... so I think I'll be OK.

If someone has issues with the copy protection used in other DC games, I would suggest PM'ing someone from DC - like bgaum, as he seems most involved and is the only one I've ever gotten a message from.

It is really sad that this even has to be discussed ... I still can't get past the whole piracy thing ... it just plain isn't yours.

Mike

[ksponge]

I really hope they don't use starforce. If they do I have a feeling, with DL being on the side of somewhat unknown, they add starforce to that equation and they are gonna be shooting themselves in the foot... I already have a preorder on the game, if I heard they were using starforce I wouldn't be happy about it and might cancel.

Chances are, if someone downloads the game they either 1. Won't buy it anyways or 2. will try the game in that manner, realize it isn't crap, and buy it for the multiplayer (hopefully this is protected in some manner, otherwise bad news is coming for them).

So, I would say, they use starforce, they will see a significant loss in sales because of it, and immediately many gamers will not like the company hurting future sales also. Honestly, I will not put any starforce product on my comp. Look as SC:CT. I'm not sure how many copies that sold, it hasn't been cracked except for an image that only works on USB DVD drives, but the price for it has dropped significantly headed toward bargain bin according to EB. I beleive they would have sold more copies if they did not use starforce.

Err and also there is no generic sf3 crack so if you are thinking you can somehow remove the protection if they use it, you're sadly mistaken.

[NecroViolator]

I believe in a game that sells it self.
I mean if the game "Dungeon Lords" is what its supposed to be, hopefuly every awesome, even the people whom "pirate copy" this game will buy it.

I know for a fact that even my friend whom loves to Pirate copy games said he was buying this game.
"Why", I asked.
"Because its soooo cool. And I have been waiting for a game like this.", he replies.
"So your not going to "Share" a pirated copy of this game?", I asked.
"Nope. If the game has been fixed with what people have been asking for and the bugs fixed, then NO.", he snarls.

I changed the subject because I could see that he was getting angry.
Because some people pirate copy doesnt mean that they wont buy the game.
This is why I think a game should be selling its self. ;)

[Vast_Girth]

ok, lets get it out in the open, i download and play pirated software. Not a friend or a sibling, me.. but if i feel a game is worth my cash i will go out and buy it. Regarding dungeon lords, i shall be waiting for some reviews, and if it sounds promising i shall buy it, if not well...the issue comes down to starforce 3

Just to clairify, and in oppositon to whats been posted above, starforce 3 is a huge thorn in the side of anybody who wants to download games. Most copy protection works by encypting the .exe file, thus to get round it you need to simply replace this file with a 'cracked' file with the copy protection removed. Starforce on the other encrypts lots and lots of files making cracking them all a very difficult and time consuming process.

And it does work. Most Games with SF3 protection dont get cracked at all, or you have to resort to ridiculously conveluted methods to play them (unplugging your cd rom anyone?). Most of the new Digital jesters releases havent been pirated much for these reasons..

If i was publishing a game i would definately use SF3, as its by far the most effective method against piracy available at the moment, a huge benefit which outways the problems of the relatively small users who have problems with it.

[bgaum]

The bottom line is that piracy is so prevalent in our industry today that we need to protect our intellectual property more now than ever before. This hurts revenues for smaller publishers and developers much more than it does the larger ones. With regards to protection – there are pros and cons with each type of protection. I wish that there was one protection solution that had no negative side effects associated with it, but this unfortunately is not the case.

[Boog7]

Ewww.... Bummer..

[txa1265]

I wish that there was one protection solution that had no negative side effects associated with it

Well, of course there *is* a solution ... it is called personal accountability. It is unfortunate that so few people practice it ... feel they are *owed* something ... that you need to have these draconian measures.

We have come such a long way from the original Jedi Knight, which is only 8 years old, yet not only had *no* copy-protection, but even had a 'no CD' solution right on the disk!

We have come a long way ... but not in a good way ...

Mike

[txa1265]

ok, lets get it out in the open, i download and play pirated software.Wasn't sure where this was going, but ...

If i was publishing a game i would definately use SF3, as its by far the most effective method against piracy available at the moment, a huge benefit which outways the problems of the relatively small users who have problems with it. ...I'm glad I stuck with it ;)

Thanks for the enlightenment ... reminds me of the interesting discussions we had over the international economic issues around piracy over at the TG forums ... always nice to see intelligent debate ...

Mike

[metadethrax]

So, should I understand from bgaum's answer that Dungeon Lords is going to use SF3? If that's true, I am very sorry, but I won't buy the game, at least not in the first day. Don't get me wrong, I am not against copy protection, but I am against something that messes my computer or demands other investments like new DVD players. I am sure that, in the end, cracking SF3 will be as easy as other older protections, it is just a matter of time, and the only ones coming out in a bad shape from this situation are the legit buyers.
BTW, Painkiller didn't have SF3, I bought it a long time ago, I believe it had Safedisc or something like that and People Can Fly were kind enough after a while to remove through a patch the copy protection. Painkiller was such a great game and it didn't had to be SF3 to sell well. Funny thing is that a vast majority of the SF3 games are crap.
While I agree that copy protection is very important, I DO understand people who download and play pirate games and then, if they like the game, buy it. Let's face it, there are a lot of games that just don't live up to their hype, and buying them with the eyes closed sucks. I did this in the past and I felt like I had been cheated by the developers/publishers, so, from time to time, when I get interested in a game, I play the demo or play the pirated version if demo is not available, and then, if the game is worthy, I go and buy it. I bought Half Life 2, even I hated and still hate Steam and its stupid online activation, because HL2 was a good game...maybe not that good regarding gameplay, storyline, or atmosphere, but it was good because they really worked on it, it was almost bug free, optimized, beautiful. Even though HL2 is far from being a masterpiece, I bought it because those guys at Valve really cared about me, their buyer. After a month, Valve removed the copy protection, listening to the buyers' demand against the presence of the CD in the drive. Yes they did it, like the creators of Painkiller did it, like Epic Games did it with UT2004. Why? Because they make good games people buy no matter what. They don't need SF3 or other stupid copy protection, they got QUALITY, and QUALITY still sells.
One more thing...I played the demo, even though I liked it and thought it had a lot of potential, it didn't convinced me 100%, and I am 25 years old and I am playing RPGs since the glorious days of Ultima and Wizardry. I am more indulgent with RPGs than an 15 years old guy who plays NFS Underground and downloads the demo just to see what Dungeon Lords is about. But I try to imagine what he thinks when playing the demo, without any real RPG background...well, I don't think he likes the demo, and when he finds out that this game has SF3, of which there are a lot of nasty things around the internet, I am **** sure that he's not going to buy the game.
It's really sad that games made for niches such as RPG fans, adventure fans, in small number compared to, let's say, the ones who buy GTA San Andreas or Doom 3, games that don't appeal to the majority of the audience, come out with problems, even caused by the protection scheme, problems that make the small audience step away from the game. I remember the day The Moment of Silence came out in Europe (Digital Jesters), I was going to buy it, but I cancelled my order when I found out that it had SF3. Reading the reviews made me think I did the right thing, they were complaining about the problems SF3 had caused them...in the end, even though almost 6 months passed from the european release, I bought TMOS from TAC, without any SF3 **** and enjoyed every minute of it.
So, I really, really hope Dungeon Lords won't have SF3...because I am sure the game still has a lot of bugs and problems of it's own, even though the team tried so solve most of them during the time passed from the release of the demo, if we add SF3's problems, I'm not too optimistic about the final result. I can take problems like the ones Temple of Elemental Evil had (no information about the spells, the weapons, some glitches, balancing problems, in the end it was one of the greatest RPGs I played in my whole life), but I am not going to take any DVD/CD incompatibilities, problems with other software installed on my PC, autentification problems, hardware conflicts.
Dreamcatcher, think about us, the RPG players!

[Vampire_X]

Yeah Starforce 3 is a really crappy protection alot of problems with it , even if they do use it the groups will still crack it just like any other starforce 3 protected game.

But there making the people suffer who actually buy the game.

[araczynski]

sf3 may suck (for us) but it does the job better then almost anything else out there. i don't blame companies for using it for this exact reason.

i've never had any problems with any protections on games on my computer.

i bought DL indifferent to what it has for protection.

and i'm guessing that companies lose less money from the disgruntled people that won't buy their game because of what type of protection they use, then they do by using weaker protections and making it easier for pirates to seed their games.

[Brainsic]

So a company should screw its customers so they stop a few people (not likely) from copying it?

Everyone knows its cracked before most even buy it.
Its a waste of time and money,and doesnt work,except to bother legit customers,more lost sales.

Im not advocating,just pointing out current methods just make the company lose more than they would to pirating,because they will get by it anyways.

Someone just need to come up with protection that doesnt do more harm to the legit user.

[metadethrax]

I think a company that uses this kind of protection loses a lot of sales long term...OK, maybe SF3 is efficient in stopping pirated copies to appear on the internet in the first 2 weeks-one month, but in the end, the game gets cracked and many of the eventual buyers will go for the pirate version just because it's not that difficult to mess with it. You don't have to keep the CD in the drive all time (GOD, i really hate this, I played HL2 with the CD until Valve decided to remove the protection, and the disc got some slight scratches), no compatibility problems, no uninstallation needed for virtual drives, no hidden drivers that still mess up my computer (since I had unistalled Still Life demo, Starforce 3 protected, I can't access Device Manager, because the Starforce Removal Tool deleted some of the CLSIDs from the registry), no problems at all. Can you blame them? I wouldn't...
So, I really want to ask someone who gets the store version of Dungeon Lords to tell us what kind of protection it uses (use A-Ray Scanner for that), because I want to know what to do with my momey...should I put them into Dreamcatcher, or should I pay for a company that really cares about its buyers and is not treating them as thieves. Because the way Starforce acts leads me to thieving...I don't like that a software I bought (and, remember, I'm not paying for Starforce, I am paying for the game, I pay for the game, I only need the game installed, not the whole SF3 bullshit, that even dares to tell me what I am and what I am not allowed to have on my PC) to conflict with another soft installed on my own PC. In the end, I don't feel like a lab test animal to allow the guys at Starforce to learn more about their own build protection, even though this means no DL for me. :mad:

[wolf]

You know what would really stop piracy and people copying CDs? A drive that reads CDs but is guaranteed not to srcatch them. Or even better, a new medium on which to store information that does not require any physical movement to read. That way the current excuse of "oh but I HAD to make a copy because I wanted to protect my original" would be null and void.

Or a device that can store many discs and read them without scratching them, so that the worst excuse of them all, "I am too lazy to change CDs when I want to play my games", will no longer be valid.

What this would do would be to legitimize legislation that seeks to prevent the copying of digital media, which would in turn have power over sites that offer methods for circumnavigating copy protection and shut them down. Gamecopyworld is a well-travelled site the last time I looked, and their excuse for existing is that you have a legal right to back up your games because it is a well known fact that original CDs get damaged through regular use. No damage, no reason to back up games. Simple.

But of course that would mean a sizeable investment by the people that determine what standards to adhere to with regards to whatever the new data format would be, plus major research into a way to create physical installation media that is as cheap as CDs and DVDs are currently without breaking the bank. At the moment Flash memory would be a good idea, but 1.2gb of space on a flash disk that the typical game occupies would cost more per unit than is worthwhile for a publisher to pursue.

So innovation is required. My question is why has there been so little with regards to the way we distribute software? Too expensive? The current system is working and the losses to piracy are acceptable? Internet distribution is dependent on an infrastructure that many countries cannot support? All of the above?

I agree with some of what you guys have said - it's the legitimate users that get screwed over with copy protection schemes like StarForce. It's time for something new.

[txa1265]

I think it is naive to assume that 'CD wear' is a major cause of piracy. If *that* were the case, wouldn't the only problem be 'no cd cracks'?

Added security to protect property has been a reality of life longer than most of you have been alive.
- The local warehouse store has someone to check your receipt against your stuff.
- Most stores have security tags on high-theft items, and scanners at the doors.
- The added airline security measures.

All of these punish honest people, while the truly dishonest people will always steal stuff. It is only the people in the middle - those who might steal something, but are fairly easily deterred - that are the real targets of these measures.

Are you telling me that is they got rid of all the wrapping that made it such a pain to get to CD's, and made them all $10 at the most, that piracy would go away? Or $5 ... or $1?!?! No way ... so long as there is a 'free' option, piracy will exist.

So it is with games. The 'CD wear' thing is lame - heck, I've played some games like JKII >30 times through off the same CD on four different computers over the last 3+ years ... no CD issues. I just re-installed Dark Forces from my 10+ year old CD, which I used many times, no issue. I have music CD's which are >20 years old I have no problem with, despite multiple plays.

So what should the companies *really* do?

Mike

[Alfheira]

The problem with starforce is that it not only stops you from copying a game but in some cases from playing it. It's an IDE-Driver that checks the cd and your drives. On pure SATA-Systems Starforce is going to check your PC for 5 minutes before actually starting a game. If you don't got admin rights on a machine it will not start at all. Starforce games don't run on 64-bit Windows. XP-64 is out now and Longhorn is to come next year. So from next year on no Starforce protected games would run on an actual system without a patch. I had the weirdest of problems with Starforce protected games and therefore won't buy any game using it. So I'm very very happy that the german version of DL will use a different copy protection.

[phalzyr]

I think it is naive to assume that 'CD wear' is a major cause of piracy. If *that* were the case, wouldn't the only problem be 'no cd cracks'?

Added security to protect property has been a reality of life longer than most of you have been alive.
- The local warehouse store has someone to check your receipt against your stuff.
- Most stores have security tags on high-theft items, and scanners at the doors.
- The added airline security measures.

All of these punish honest people, while the truly dishonest people will always steal stuff. It is only the people in the middle - those who might steal something, but are fairly easily deterred - that are the real targets of these measures.

Mike

I agree mostly with you, but unlike your first three examples. Pirating computer software or music methods don't really desuade those middle people since they aren't the ones taking most of the risk. The one posting it on warez sites are and those people will do it no matter what. The average person can go to said sight and download game virtually risk free. So what CD protection winds up doing is alienating honest users for very little gain, those who are going to pirate it are going to pirate it whether it is protected or not. Unlike the first three examples it isn't enforced that greatly on the end user side, (no one has ever came to my house to see if I had pirate software, which I don't. but I have downloaded stuff to try before buy when no demos were available for game.) Sure those that run sites might be caught and punished nad them not even that often. I do download no cd cracks all the time because I hate looking for the Cd for a game in all my mess :) I guess I could be less messy but...

I don't really play that often anymore so don't really care about protection as ong as it works but that is the real problem, it often stops legit users from playing the game they bought. I've luckily never had that problem, but have encountered the issue where the protection makes the game run like your system is a 486...

I think to get the best of both worlds they should make the initial release with it protected with a reliable protection, and then later after sales die down release an official no-cd patch. (since they're out there anyway)

[Angel With Scabbed Wings]

Piracy has hurt legit gamers, not only do we have to contend with bugs in the game itself but also with bugs in its protection system. Not that I am attacking piracy, personaly, I love playing games over my lan, but really cant afford to buy a minium of two copies of every bloody game. That being said, the increased "needed" protection is getting more and more intrusive. Anyone who has had to play Half-Life 2 will agree with me on that. Steam actually forces you to ask permission online almost every time you play. About 70% of the time I tried to play, it had to apply a patch, or update in some way, and refused to allow me to play offline. When it did work offline, it had to verify my files, taking a good 10 minutes each time. Half Life 2 was a great game, One of the best I have ever played, but I have not touched it since I finished it, even to play online because I refuse to put that crap Steam, back onto my computer.
Protections like Starforce are an unfortunate necissity, and unfortunately will not go jump off a cliff as I am wishing now that I have brought Steam back into memory. I have yet to have a really bad experience with Starforce, but if DL has any Hard or Intrusive protection, Ill pass thanks.

[NTJedi]

Very true... piracy has hurt almost every game being developed, except for maybe free games like Wesnoth. Lots of money, time, programming and testing is put into software which stops piracy... all resources which could be going to a better game.

Even for those black-hearted pirates which are ones that pirate every game should go out and buy their favorite games... just out of respect. A game purchase also increases value for that game type and its features. Plus I bet it helps remove any guilty feelings about stealing.

[DireFog]

So, still no answer. Well, what is it? Yes or no? I'm going to wait for the game to appear on GCW, then I'll know.

StarForce would make it a no-buy, since the whole scheme is borderline criminal. First, an obscure driver is installed on the system without any clearly visible warning (except for the key printed on the CD, which is a crackhead solution in itself), and then there's no support for it. Neither publishers nor the StarForce makers themselves did ever answer any of my questions on how to uninstall the thing or what it does, so they must have something to hide.

And as for the eternal piracy argument: I don't pirate, but I have almost stopped buying games for various reasons:

I know most of them already (sequels to clichés)
Support is non-existent in most of the cases, players have to help each other since there's not much to be heard form the official support other than scripted replys (re-install the game, re-install Windows, thank you for calling.)
If I ever lose a disc or if it gets damaged or explodes inside the drive (see the first bad batch of Neverwinter Nights CDs p.ex.), I have to pay a non-trivial amount of money for replacement that's way over S&H, even though I would have had the possibility to make a backup and spare both me and the publisher time and hassle, if the publisher hadn't decided to try and get some more of my money some time later.


And I was really looking forward to this game :(

[Vast_Girth]

dont be such a drama queen direfrog. Starforce isn't that bad, and for reasons discussed, dreamcatcher well may feel its the best option to use.

If you really want the game, buy it and play it. If you want to let daft reasons stop you, then fine, dont play it. simple as.

I keep a very secure and clean pc, and ive got no proplems with starforce (other than it stops me pirating games, grrrr ;) )


to be honest i wouldn't be suprised if most of the people complaining about starforce were only doing so because they want to pirate the game!

[Darth Vader]

Yeah, but I STILL want to hear an official answer to my question from Dreamcatcher: is Dungeon Lords gonna use Starforce 3 or not? Thanx, again, for your further answer, Dreamcatcher!

I'm not sure why you would feel indignant about copy protection. I've never had a problem with games w/ copy protection. I've had games like KOTOR list that they use copy protection on the box, but I wouldn't expect them to specify which they use. Do you call Langley and ask the CIA what technology they use to spy on suspected terrorists?

[DireFog]

I keep a very secure and clean pc, and ive got no proplems with starforce (other than it stops me pirating games, grrrr ;) )


My problems with StarForce are:

It is installed much like a "run this file" trojan.
There's no good official, public documentation on what exactly is installed, where it goes and what it does.
It costs me. The publisher has to buy a license and then pay royalties to the vendor, and how do you think that's being paid?
There's no proof that copy control has any positive effect for the publisher, all things considered.
It leads to endless discussions on the publisher's message boards that never, ever see official attention.


All that just to have a product that would cause me less problems if I hadn't paid for it, because let's be honest: If it is known that an off-the-shelf product will do mysterious things to the system and need a crack to run, the average potential customer can and will just go with a free download from any P2P network that might also do strange things to the system, but at least it'll run.

And heck, if my machine starts portscanning like crazy, I'll let my external firewall take care of that while I play the game. ;)

[Darth Vader]

My problems with StarForce are:

It is installed much like a "run this file" trojan.
There's no good official, public documentation on what exactly is installed, where it goes and what it does.
It costs me. The publisher has to buy a license and then pay royalties to the vendor, and how do you think that's being paid?
There's no proof that copy control has any positive effect for the publisher, all things considered.
It leads to endless discussions on the publisher's message boards that never, ever see official attention.



A problem is something that lessens your pleasure. Not having knowledge about something really shouldn't be considered a problem. The only thing that would be a problem in that list is the increased cost of the product. And if this copy protection stops unethical pirating of the product, I'll pay $5 more. These MMOs that I've been playing for the past couple of years are sucking much more money from my wallet that copy protection. :)

[hacknslash]

well I bought the game last night and there doesnt appear to be any copy protection. I installed the game and can play it without the cd in my computer. Now that is the way software should be. There is a cd key which looks to be for multiplayer over internet.

[DireFog]

There is a cd key which looks to be for multiplayer over internet.

There is no key printed on the CD that needs to be entered during installation? (Granted, being able to play the game without any disc in the drive at all is a big honking sign, but it never hurts to be careful ;) )

[flyingelvis]

There is a CD key on a separate empty box, but it is not needed for installation or the single player game.

[phalzyr]

well I bought the game last night and there doesnt appear to be any copy protection. I installed the game and can play it without the cd in my computer. Now that is the way software should be. There is a cd key which looks to be for multiplayer over internet.

COOL, maybe that is why they never answered the question ;).

Or maybe something went wrong in duplication HAHA.

[Darth Vader]

COOL, maybe that is why they never answered the question ;).

Or maybe something went wrong in duplication HAHA.

Or maybe it's some new copy protection that will produce electricity when playing a pirated copy and shock you through the keyboard. Has anyone experienced this yet?

[col_firefly]

Or a device that can store many discs and read them without scratching them, so that the worst excuse of them all, "I am too lazy to change CDs when I want to play my games", will no longer be valid.

But you do! It's called a hard disk drive. ;)

Which leads me to...

My problems with StarForce are:

It is installed much like a "run this file" trojan.
There's no good official, public documentation on what exactly is installed, where it goes and what it does.
It costs me. The publisher has to buy a license and then pay royalties to the vendor, and how do you think that's being paid?
There's no proof that copy control has any positive effect for the publisher, all things considered.
It leads to endless discussions on the publisher's message boards that never, ever see official attention.


All that just to have a product that would cause me less problems if I hadn't paid for it, because let's be honest: If it is known that an off-the-shelf product will do mysterious things to the system and need a crack to run, the average potential customer can and will just go with a free download from any P2P network that might also do strange things to the system, but at least it'll run.

6. It interferes with the running of your PC and programs.

Starforce rejects any attempt to play a game when any flavour of drive (re. CDROM) emulation software is on the PC, even if it is a defaultly installed subsection of a commercial copying program, i.e. Alcohol 120.

I think that is criminal.

[TotalChaos]

Hoodlum just cracked it ,bye bye starforce3 :) anyway i still can understand why developers used starforce however now that starforce can be cracked faster and faster its not realy so effective anymore hopefully dreamcaster learn from this and will use Securom 7 next time . Securom 7 is an much more compatible protection.

[Raptilain]

Question DO or Do not Software pirates have to buy the game in the first place to crack it??? :)

[dajunka]

For some reason the last 2 starforce protected games I bought gave me startup and shutdown problems untill starforce was removed.
So like countless others I am commited to never buying another game protected by starforce. It just isent fair on the customer.

[Xyyth]

I don't think anyone associated with the game can really say much of anything about what happened at this point. If the executives at Dreamcatcher get ticked off, they could pull all support for this game and just dump it. Nobody really knows for sure which side is at fault for the pre-mature release and we only speculate.

I suggest we just drop it and let them fix it. What has happened has happened and they know already that the majority is unhappy about it.

[Gorric]

Generally I won’t buy a game until I can download the NO-CD crack if the game for some reason doesn’t get cracked which is rare I don’t buy the game. It’s funny in my case, and I’m sure I’m not alone that cracking the protection increases sales. All I know for sure is that a cracked game runs better then the original retail game and I hate buying second best, and I think that’s unfortunate. I can’t help thinking that there’s got to be a better way because I think that the protectionism is slow killing the business.

[phalzyr]

Yes I hate cd protections, Luckily DL doesn't have any :cool:

[ollobrains]

u do know that dreamcatcher dont respond on these forums unless its to annouce a new buggy game

[GeorgeKeith]

How can they even respond when they no longer exist. Apparently you don't know this :cool:

[Gala McGoo]

I've recieved a copy of Dungeon Lords Collector's Edition for Christmas. I do not know if it has Starforce or not (I'm not very tech-literate). But it installed just fine and I've been playing 2-3 hours every day with no problems...