Definitive Answer on Map Inclusion/Exclusion by Chuk22

[RitingFool]

In response to some inquiries on the automap on the Typhoon Board, Chuk22 posted the following:

Unfortunately, maps are not currently available. Maps have never been active in any publicly released form. It is a feature that was cut due to time.

Notwithstanding, it is an addition we are heavily considering, once other more relevant issues have been patched.

In the meantime, if you bought the game, you get a map in the box. Between the map, the roadsigns, and the compass, the world is quite navigable.

-CHUK

[sal pancho]

In the meantime, if you bought the game, you get a map in the box. Between the map, the roadsigns, and the compass, the world is quite navigable.

-CHUK

Lol, I love that last part...the subtle sarcasm is great.

[Thanakar]

To me the entire automap explanation is pure bull. Take a look at the game directories. In there you'll find maps of the roads in the game and you'l even find a Fargrove map with small icons for quest and player. Sounds more like they failed in getting it ready in time for release then deciding that it would be more fun if players were lost in the wilderness complaining about no knowing where they were in the world.

[malvado]

I suppose they used more time on making the graphic for the buttons on the playstation controller
Program Files\Dreamcatcher\Dungeon Lords\interface/psbutton
There is so much junk in the installation folder which are newer used in the game, if I understand the files correctly the automap was active back in 2003, have a look at these folders :
Program Files\Dreamcatcher\Dungeon Lords\maps *the map of fargrove*
Program Files\Dreamcatcher\Dungeon Lords\terrmap *The main map where all towns are, Fargrove is marked with an F* dated : 21 February 2005 so the automap was in fact being worked on...

Now some thoughts on the engine, the engine is basically an remake of the one used in W&W, if anyone still have the game, have a look in the folder and you will find the DEEP6 file. In Dungeon Lords the Deep6 file is dated 18 May 1998...

It seems like the development for this game was initially aimed at both PC and PS2 audience, somewhere on this road something went terribly wrong and they had both a lack of funds and experienced programmers. Just have a look at the structure of the filesystem and compare it with an modern game, its a really big mess and I believe that may be one of the faults why things doesnæt work as they should.

So probably if we are lucky we will see 1 or 2 patches wich will fix a couple of the problems, as long as they are able to fix the automap for the outside world it will increase gameplay and enjoyment tenfold.

[sal pancho]

Lol, that DEEP6 thing is absolutely insane. I just checked it out too....there's got to be an explaination for that other than the file being 7 years old. Someone at HD headquarters must have had a wrong PC system date.

[malvado]

No, it looks like the DEEP6 file is the one used in W&W game. I believe that they are using a somewhat modified game engine based on the old W&W one. Many parts of the game seems to suggest this like the 3d environment structure (ground). If you had played W&W you would be able to recognise the geometry easily.

But what makes me really mad is the following rant :
[QUOTE]There has been quite a bit of confusion on the forums about the auto-map feature, therefore I have revised the FAQ on this issue in an effort to help avoid any further misunderstandings:

8. I heard there was an auto-map feature in Dungeon Lords but when playing it, I can’t seem to get it to work?
No auto-map feature has been included in the game. Although mentioned in the manual, the manuals were printed significantly before the final cut of Dungeon Lords was delivered from the developer. Between the time of the manual printing and the final version of Dungeon Lords being delivered and after significant discussion and evaluation, it was determined that the current system was more fun, providing increasing character growth and classic RPG exploring. However, based on user-feedback an auto-mapping feature may be included for a future update.

D@mn, looks like they are lying again, at least they are trying to make us believe that it was an Game design decision so they decided to take out the map of the game to make us enjoy the game more properly? What the heck? Is it just me or does this just not sound good at all? I would rather have the option to enable disable the automap at my leisure to not having it.

Can't you just say for christ sake that you didn't have enough time to finish the automap feature????

[Chunky Barcode]

If you've played Wizard and Warriors at any great length, then a lot of the sound samples in Dungeon Lords should be strangely familiar. I've only got as far as the first town, but....well audio wise I keep getting a strange sense of DeJa vu. Lol.

[RitingFool]

I looked around the game directory and came upon the sub-directory StatusIcons in the Interface directory. There is only ONE icon, for poison. Has anyone actually had any other status on them? Sleep, slow, confused, anything?

If they ran out of time for THAT, then they really must have been under the gun!

Regards,
Michael

[malvado]

Exactly what I also was thinking.
It just seems they ran out of time.
If they now just could be straightforward with that an just say it I suppose most of the people here would calm down including me.

[bgaum]

We're not lying about the auto-map - that is what was intended. The auto-map WILL be implemented. However, it won't be included in the first update. The first update is in testing now.

Thanks.

[RitingFool]

We're not lying about the auto-map - that is what was intended. The auto-map WILL be implemented. However, it won't be included in the first update. The first update is in testing now.

Thanks.

Almost every RPG in the last five years has an automapping feature - it's almost a standard thing. While some people genuinely like playing without an automap, most games include the feature, along with a TOGGLE TO TURN IT ON OR OFF. When 95% of all RPG gamers prefer and/or need to have an automap, you would think this decision would be included (along with the aforementioned toggle).

To not include a feature that is almost universally clamored for in any RPG because "the developers thought it was more fun to play without one" is more than a little irresponsible. After all, the developers don't have to plunk down their hard-earned money to play the game - the consumers, the actual game-players do.

Regards,
Michael

[dantivirus]

In response to some inquiries on the automap on the Typhoon Board, Chuk22 posted the following:

Unfortunately, maps are not currently available. Maps have never been active in any publicly released form. It is a feature that was cut due to time.

Notwithstanding, it is an addition we are heavily considering, once other more relevant issues have been patched.

In the meantime, if you bought the game, you get a map in the box. Between the map, the roadsigns, and the compass, the world is quite navigable.

-CHUK

Map in the box...interesting....I sure didn't get one, got 2 cd 2's but no map. So that's 1/3 of my navigation options gone. :(

[houdimoudi]

maybe one of the devs thought "oh why not make it even more funny by not including the map in the package? they can draw their own map"
but why the hel*l havent they delivered a blank white paper and a pen?

[BullGod]

I have not posted on this board since release. I got really tired of hearing the whining. After reading this thread, I just have to say...

Why don't the complainers complain some more when a member of the dev team give a reason for something??? Agree with it or not.

Jez....maybe that way they will all get pissed,throw their hands up, and not patch crap. Wouldn't that be great. We all know it is a kick *** game, or we would not have bought it. Period. Stop pressuring them, or we will all be with out a dam patch, and screwed.
:rolleyes:

[mooreplus]

we already got screwed. I dont care if they patch it or go make business software.

there is a reason games sell most of what they will sell in the first few days.

I bought this to tide me over before the PSP orgy at e3, now I'm back to playing twisted metal on my back porch. The game is shelved.

[ichiko]

I have not posted on this board since release. I got really tired of hearing the whining. After reading this thread, I just have to say...

Why don't the complainers complain some more when a member of the dev team give a reason for something??? Agree with it or not.

Jez....maybe that way they will all get pissed,throw their hands up, and not patch crap. Wouldn't that be great. We all know it is a kick *** game, or we would not have bought it. Period. Stop pressuring them, or we will all be with out a dam patch, and screwed.
:rolleyes:


lol you must be the stupidest person on earth you got raped in the *** from them and you are crying out loud for more ?

[dantivirus]

I have not posted on this board since release. I got really tired of hearing the whining. After reading this thread, I just have to say...

Why don't the complainers complain some more when a member of the dev team give a reason for something??? Agree with it or not.

Jez....maybe that way they will all get pissed,throw their hands up, and not patch crap. Wouldn't that be great. We all know it is a kick *** game, or we would not have bought it. Period. Stop pressuring them, or we will all be with out a dam patch, and screwed.
:rolleyes:

Kick *** game? I wouldn't qualify it as that but to each their own. :rolleyes:

To this day I have never seen, let alone bought, a game that I would consider kick ***.

Take a look at the unofficial buglist thread, there's a lot of bugs, far more than most games currently on the market.

[Fustrated]

maybe one of the devs thought "oh why not make it even more funny by not including the map in the package? they can draw their own map"
but why the hel*l havent they delivered a blank white paper and a pen?

LOL - Oh, sometimes you need a good laugh.

When I read this, all I could think about was what Chuk22 said about:
"In the meantime, if you bought the game, you get a map in the box. Between the map, the roadsigns, and the compass, the world is quite navigable."

So, I guess Chuk22 would be saying now like:

"In the meantime, if you bought the game. Between the roadsigns, the compass, and your homemade map, the world is quite navigable."

LOL

[BullGod]

Kick *** game? I wouldn't qualify it as that but to each their own. :rolleyes:

To this day I have never seen, let alone bought, a game that I would consider kick ***.

Take a look at the unofficial buglist thread, there's a lot of bugs, far more than most games currently on the market.

It is unfortunate you don't find any games kick ***. You may wanna stick with your PS2, Xbox, or whatever you play. Then you can be bug and patch free. Reality is, PC games need to work on hundreds of thousands of combinations of hardware/software. I have never played a good game that didn't need a patch.

As you said, to each his (or her) own. I like DL. It presents a challenge, and I have not found it unplayable as of yet.

The 'Unofficial bug list thread was informative to start, and is now just as redundant as all of these other threads.

I personally will not be participating to much here more. The good info is gone, and is now a whiners dump.

If you are ever satisfied with the game, I hope you can enjoy it.

Thanks

[BullGod]

lol you must be the stupidest person on earth you got raped in the *** from them and you are crying out loud for more ?

It is called understanding and maturity. You should try it.

Peace and love to you.

[gutkin]

I have not posted on this board since release. I got really tired of hearing the whining. After reading this thread, I just have to say...

Why don't the complainers complain some more when a member of the dev team give a reason for something??? Agree with it or not.

Jez....maybe that way they will all get pissed,throw their hands up, and not patch crap. Wouldn't that be great. We all know it is a kick *** game, or we would not have bought it. Period. Stop pressuring them, or we will all be with out a dam patch, and screwed.
:rolleyes:

Patching DL decisions will not be made based on complaints. Its going to be based on how many more copied they can sell and can they fix the relationships they ruined with the customers who bougt DL. "Whining" as you call it isnt going to make them mad and not share their toys with us.

[snowdog]

uhm yeah...this is what I was saying with the unfinished turd thing.

after reading all the demo feedback...before the "unfortunate" forum wipe, and seeing the positive response from the developers with their lists of fixes and considerations I had the impression that this game was going to be an improvement from the demo or at least a finished product.

I didn't buy DL to beta test for a console version or even a pc version and since this seems to be a growing trend in the pc market I took my copy back to the store in protest and demanded my money back. they inclined, credit card refund.

now, after seeing the latest out clause stickys v.1 by bgaum and the news of the game being built on recycled engine and what not, I feel even better about my decision. Suck it dream catcher. finish up the game maybe I'll buy it again. :D

[dantivirus]

It is unfortunate you don't find any games kick ***. You may wanna stick with your PS2, Xbox, or whatever you play. Then you can be bug and patch free. Reality is, PC games need to work on hundreds of thousands of combinations of hardware/software. I have never played a good game that didn't need a patch.

As you said, to each his (or her) own. I like DL. It presents a challenge, and I have not found it unplayable as of yet.

The 'Unofficial bug list thread was informative to start, and is now just as redundant as all of these other threads.

I personally will not be participating to much here more. The good info is gone, and is now a whiners dump.

If you are ever satisfied with the game, I hope you can enjoy it.

Thanks

I never said any game was bug free and needed a patch or two, heck I do beta testing, but I did say DL has far more bugs than most games on the current market, which is a fact. How this many bugs got past 90 testers is just mind-blowing. Read the manual and see for yourself how many testers there were.

I'm upset by the fact that what they said would be in game isn't and then some things that were suppose to work, don't. I also find it very disturbing that the other towns are virtual ghost towns, where are the hundreds of people to interact with?

[gutkin]

Here is proof that AutoMap was intended and simply left out for whatever lame reason Dreamcatcher can come up. My guess the honest one is they simply ran out of time.

AutoMap Proof (http://www.dungeonlordsgame.com/images/in/screenshots/scrn0002.jpg)

[ObiwanMcCartney]

Well, the idea that it was never going to be in game and that the problem was that the manuals were printed so much earlier (pretty weak manual for a game this size I might add) doesn't hold much water considering that 'm' is listed as the default hotkey for the map IN THE GAME ITSELF. So looks like if the manual is out of date then the game is too.

[Cathail]

I looked around the game directory and came upon the sub-directory StatusIcons in the Interface directory. There is only ONE icon, for poison. Has anyone actually had any other status on them? Sleep, slow, confused, anything?

If they ran out of time for THAT, then they really must have been under the gun!

Regards,
Michael

Actually, I've had fear and stun on me. Fear shows up as two purple circles crossed above your head, stunned shows up as you not able to do anything and looking at the ground.

[Cathail]

Almost every RPG in the last five years has an automapping feature - it's almost a standard thing. While some people genuinely like playing without an automap, most games include the feature, along with a TOGGLE TO TURN IT ON OR OFF. When 95% of all RPG gamers prefer and/or need to have an automap, you would think this decision would be included (along with the aforementioned toggle).

To not include a feature that is almost universally clamored for in any RPG because "the developers thought it was more fun to play without one" is more than a little irresponsible. After all, the developers don't have to plunk down their hard-earned money to play the game - the consumers, the actual game-players do.

Regards,
Michael

I agree. Like a couple others have mentioned what DC is saying sounds quite counter to D.W.'s previous games which apparently had maps, which admittedly I did not play. There's also all the evidence against this, including the key mapping in the help text, the screenshot(s), and claims from HP that it was present.