Regarding all of the ranting...

[Karas]

Good Afternoon,

I've been mostly silent on these boards regarding all the ranting and bashing because I would prefer to invest my time into playing the game to the best degree that it can be played in its current form, rather than waste energy on this forum ranting or raving about something I have no control over.

The costs of keeping a project development team on payroll are tremendous and there comes a point where a publisher has to decide whether or not they can justify that cost. If they feel that they will lose more money by delaying a title than they will releasing it in an unfinished state, then they will release it in an unfinished state. That's economics. Pure, Plain, and Simple.

I personally feel that Dreamcatcher may have made a bad business decision releasing Dungeon lords when it did, but then I don't know all of the circumstances involved. Neither do any of you. Although, I do believe that whoever made the decision to push the game out the door should have looked a bit closer at the product before doing so. The "aesthetic" bugs should not have been there. When I say aesthetic I am talking about the menu resolution problem and the flickering screen problem. Those two bugs could have been fixed easily, within 5 days as we now know from the patch, and without those bugs the initial impression of the game would have been a lot better. There is absolutely no reason why the "game mechanics", such as the menuing system should ever look that unfinished, unprofessional, or that haphazardly thrown together. The 5 extra days would have been well worth the cost of paying the design team for those days.

On Bradley's Vision....

The depth and scope of Bradley's vision for this game is impressive, and it is admirable that he wanted to create such an amazing world, but perhaps in his desire to create his vision, to realize his goals for the game, he bit off a bit more than he could chew given the resources and time allotted to him.

Hindsight is always better than foresight; but if he had created a smaller world with more detail, instead of a large world with few inhabitants and very little furniture, the game would be more engaging, it would sell more copies, and he'd probably be able to even more fully realize his vision in the form of expansion packs.

Regarding all the ranting...

Just stop it. You're only wasting your energy. What's done is done. Better to try and support Dreamcatcher and Heuristic park as they try to remedy the problems in the game then to bash them about it. It has been my experience that ranting and raving at people only makes them LESS willing to help you.

What we can expect....

Given the initial problems, I doubt that we will ever see an expansion pack for Dungeon Lords. All we can hope for is a series of patches that at least fix gameplay mechanics and implement the features that the game should have shipped with. It is my belief that we will never see more furniture, more NPC's, or more quest content than what is currently in the game.

My experience thus far…

I am enjoying Dungeon Lords. I haven't personally run into any game-stopping bugs or had any in-game technical problems whatsoever and for that I am thankful. The combat is excellent and there is enough to do to keep me occupied into the wee hours of the morning.

Every time I walk into a giant deserted room or wander an empty city, however, I am greatly saddened by the lost potential of this game. If only it were a smaller, tighter world with more atmosphere, it would truly be a rare gem instead of an unpolished, although very pretty, stone.

Karas

[Crispy]

Nice post.

I agree about the potential the game had/has, and furthermore I would be a bit embarrased about the emptiness of the game if I were such a prominent RPG designer as D.W. Bradley.

It is, though, still an enjoyable fill-in game until bigger and better things come down the pipe.

[Fustrated]

What we can expect....

Given the initial problems, I doubt that we will ever see an expansion pack for Dungeon Lords. All we can hope for is a series of patches that at least fix gameplay mechanics and implement the features that the game should have shipped with. It is my belief that we will never see more furniture, more NPC's, or more quest content than what is currently in the game.

Karas

I can tell you what to expect....you can request for them to release the dev/editor tools like so many other games (Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights...ect) and allow the public (who I can promise you will do a better job) to adding, fixing, enhancing, and developing a game, as you said, with much potential.

I mean, the game still has a "GREAT" chance of being a "GREAT" game. *BUT* the only way this will happen is if the public is given the tools to mod the game. They advertised this game as a game that you could venture off into the horizon and embark into dungeons that were your discovery (I mean, Mage Allister(sp?) in Fargrove tells you as much, not including the way the company advertised it).....but you won't ever see that added by the dev's, that will have to be added mods by the public...and therefore it would be to Dungeon Lords advantage to release the tools....

[vyse000]

Nice post but from a consumers side of things we don't really care about the cost/time of developing the games. We just want good, working, retail quality games if we were to pick one up. Theres no excuses. Period.

My "rants and raves" have all been in good faith to kick DCs butt into gear and start fixing the unfinished game.

[jedidej]

Hi i havent bought DL yet and i dont think i would from the stuff i read in the forums. But I don't get people complaining about how the game sucks. It was obvious from the demo, i mean i asked myself why would a gaming company release a demo like that from a few months from the games release? The best thing for u to do now is support the developer and the game like Mr. Bradle.. i mean Karas did. ;)

[Mr.Smee]

My experience thus far…

I am enjoying Dungeon Lords. I haven't personally run into any game-stopping bugs or had any in-game technical problems whatsoever and for that I am thankful. The combat is excellent and there is enough to do to keep me occupied into the wee hours of the morning.

Every time I walk into a giant deserted room or wander an empty city, however, I am greatly saddened by the lost potential of this game. If only it were a smaller, tighter world with more atmosphere, it would truly be a rare gem instead of an unpolished, although very pretty, stone.
I agree.

Surprisingly, I've encountered not one crash at all. The game itself seems really stable (at least on my system) although the engine could probably use some optimization.

I also agree with your statement about never seeing this game fully realized. I'm a little surprised that the game install is so huge but nothing seems to have been included, aesthetically speaking.

Which is a shame really.

I didn't even know this game existed until a week ago until all the bad publicity drew me toward it like an accident on the highway. I decided to pick it up at Best Buy and try it myself, and now here I am.

Here's to hoping things get fixed!

[Fustrated]

Hi i havent bought DL yet and i dont think i would from the stuff i read in the forums. But I don't get people complaining about how the game sucks. It was obvious from the demo, i mean i asked myself why would a gaming company release a demo like that from a few months from the games release? The best thing for u to do now is support the developer and the game like Mr. Bradle.. i mean Karas did. ;)

Ok, great that you feel this way...

However, since you haven't supported this company by the purchase of their game and we have....I think were the only ones in any position to make such remarks.....

....back to the side lines with you!

[jedidej]

Ok, great that you feel this way...

However, since you haven't supported this company by the purchase of their game and we have....I think were the only ones in any position to make such remarks.....

....back to the side lines with you!

why should i support a company? I'm not charity, i was waiting for the game cause it had the network coop thing, but since it wasnt any good i'm staying a few miles away from it.

and i'm better in the sidelines then be in the mud with with u..

[Vorithon]

Thanks for the thoughtful post Karas. I to have found no show stopping bugs and I've been playing it for the last week with no quest or crash/clitch problems. Yes, my only real complaint is also the lack of details (more NPC, more decorated buildings, etc) but I'm enjoying it. I believe we need to support every PC rpg's as much as we can, mainly because of all the talk of computer gaming dying(I still not sure if I believe it or not) and the short list of RPG over the last few years.

[Walter61939]

I agree with much of what Karas said. I too am enjoying the game and I too am saddened by the lost potential. However, as someone who played the demo and then bought the game, I want to comment on the responsiveness of the Dungeon Lords team. One patch already out and another in the works--that's pretty remarkable. Yes, the game has problems, but at least the problems are being addressed, instead of simply abandoning game buyers which happens a lot more often. I can understand people's disappointment with what could have been a great game, but the fact is it still can be. So lets encourage the development team to keep working the bugs out, populating the game world, and providing guides to features like magic and combat. Thanks for listening to us, guys.

[Nnanji2]

It's utter crap. Face it.

They should be ashamed.

[NFLed]

It's utter crap. Face it.

They should be ashamed.

You are killing the pc rpg industry with your whining. If that's what you want to do then mission accomplished. Some of us are enjoying the game a whole lot and because you don't even acknowledge that this is a valid point of view (just as I acknowledge that yours is valid) then that's a shame and you should be ashamed for posting such utter bilge.

[Nnanji2]

I'm killing the RPG industry? :D

Actually, I could easily argue that people who accept unfinished and crappy games are the ones killing it. Them, and the ones who put them out.

I've bought every RPG that was ever made just about. I know pewp when I play it.

I'm glad you're enjoying it.

I can't imagine how, but I'm happy for you.

That said, I paid for the the right to state my opinion. I'm not whining. I'm stating my opinion straight up. I don't like paying good money for bad gaming.

Don't worry...from what I have read, they don't like hearing the truth, and will ban me soon enough.

[Erilaz]

Long ago I used to write strategy guides for Prima. I remember the many betas I slogged through, with almost no help from the developers who were sweating and pulling their hair out with deadlines. I got to do my share of sweating too when I usually had the same deadlines to get the guide on the shelves at the same time as the game, rewriting entire chapters with the changes they made along the way. And yes, I had to watch completely wrong advice and info go to print many times because they absolutely had to have something to start the presses with. Terms like "Breach of Contract" and other very nasty, expensive legal issues become more important than the finished product when it's your job on the line. You can't just give them the finger tell them it'll be done when it's done (unless you happen to be part of Blizzard, heh).

It's pretty obvious to me that this game was understaffed, underpaid, and under a huge amount of pressure in development. My heart goes out to the people still working on it, and the figa for the suits who pushed it out unfinished. To be fair, as Karas said there are many circumstances behind the release date which we aren't aware of, and perhaps it was a small miracle just to get in on the shelves in the first place. But I also remember companies like EA who bought out Origin/Lord British/Richard Garriot and killed the Ultima line by forcing release. Ultima Ascension was so buggy when it hit the shelves that he lost most of his audience... and investors. I think he lost his mind after that and holed up in some drafty castle in the UK. And it took EA many years to stop being tightwads, constantly cranking out ugly code.

So Dungeon Lords reminds me a lot of Ultima 9... beautiful and almost revolutionary in RPG gaming, but not nearly what Bradley (and everyone working on it) wanted it to be at release. I'm not really saying there's a bad guy to blame here, I'm just hoping DL won't be the last of its kind, too.

[Thalavon]

Here is the biggest point of fact about all of this.

Regardless of how much people are talking **** about this game right now or not, I've noticed one thing for sure.

A LOT of everyone, morons, fanboys, people that just want to play an RPG That doesn't blow for once, whoever you are...it sure as **** is evident that people are posting here and talking about it.

Whether negative, positive, or undecided people are talking about it and I think that is more than most game boards can say at this time. That I would say is a good sign, for any kind of talk is better than no kind of talk. It shows that people really DO have interest in this game, and either their hopes weren't quite met, they want them to be met, or it's enough for them for now. Whatever the case is, people are curious ;), some MMO boards are way more dead than this.

And like celebrities crave negative attention usually as it boosts their ego positively almost always. It may not work exactly that way, but people will be curious to see what all the fuss is about.

If people truly hated the game they would simply not post at all, and have the true control to boycott it by just not posting. Alas most don't and feel some strong inner need to post negative things despite the game not meeting their standards. Obviously it says that they WANT it to meet their standards just don't know a proper way to voice their own inner feelings to the outer world (even through a forum medium). Someone screaming negatives often hides inner positives, bwahahaha. Gotta hate before you can love.

[Mefi]

This game is an RPG in the same way Duck Hunt is an FPS.

Shoddy games kill developers. And that is how it should be.

This is the Action RPG of 2004 built on an engine which is 5 years old. The beta-testing obviously was not done to any standard. QA didn't seem to feature on the to-do list.

I'm astonished that so many people here seem to accept the fact that it is perfectly ok for a game to suck so badly out of the box because it can then be patched. Erm, no it isn't. It just means you are lowering your standards every time you accept this as being the 'norm'.

Yesterday I was angry that my gf had paid money for this PoS. Now I just find it rather amusing.

My review is found here (http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7196[)

[Madison]

Very good post.

I'm enjoying this game and I think it is a lot of fun. They'll fix the bugs.