DL 2 ... please GOD NO!!!!

[Zyxial]

Okay for those that are already crying DL2 please!!!

Think about what you just wrote... Not really trying to flame here but how about not feeding that frenzy until they finish the first one... I personally do not want to go out and spend another $40 just to have the game I should have had the on my first $40...

I work 2 jobs 16 hours a day 5-6 days a week... and I have to say that equals one whole day's wages. After gas, time, and frustration is added in... Oh and don't forget if you hadn't had a online connection you are going to have to get one to have the completed game you should have had out of the box...

I still recommend to those here in the United States to call their congressmen and women, your legislators and help the whole community from getting screwed forevermore....

Think about it there are those who may not have an internet connection ( even in this day and age) and have no way of fixxing the game... Is this right? Oh its kinda like buying a 6 pack of beer and the bottle is fine, has proper labeling describing the cool refreshment inside, its sealed and even makes a nice crisp psst sound when you twist the cap... but in order for you to enjoy the liquid refreshment that somehow was never put inside the bottle you either A.) have to drive to the brewery and have it filled there or B.) send the bottle via UPS, FedEx, and they will send you a coupon to redeem at your local pub,bar and/or tavern... If this was a 6 pack at least the companies involved would already be burning to the ground... mass riots would take place I asssure you...

And I don't like the sound of oh " Budlight 1 " was great how about making it all better with "Budlight 2." HOW ABOUT GIVING US WHAT WE PAID FOR FIRST!!! Then maybe as consumers we will let the market be there for you to sucker us again to open your empty bottle of stale air... at least the empty bottle might have a genie in it that will grant me three wishes so I can wish for the beer, wish for the demise of those responsible, and of course wish for a software industry that will wake the **** up and finally do the right things... tell the truth let the consumer decide if s/he wants to provide the company with the money it needs to further develope the game it had originally sold...

I think this is the main message all the flamers would just love to get across... We aren't knocking the game, we aren't knocking the work, we just would like to see the box say "This box contains a playable, unfinished product and based upon further sales will determine its further developement..." Hummm.... gee I wonder why so many love the MMoRPG ... cause this is what they really do that a normal single player RPG can't... tell the truth...

and would add this... most avid gamers will buy the product if it is worth it... but releases like this only fuel the piracy of your game... Why would I let my buddies go out and buy an incomplete product when I am thoroughly ticked off... Wouldn't I be a better friend and just give them a copied CD and say well I can''t recommend buying it but it is a nice idea to just check out for a few hours... **** maybe I should just say hey man give me $10 bucks I'll let you take the original out for a spin ... just bring it back... which I will have to say the potential is there to want to get it back from your friend... and at least then I might be recompensated monetarily for something that should have never been sold as is, in a box that describes a completed game, that I can only take back for an exact replica of the Piece O' shizit I bought the first time...

I recommend instead of flat out lying... next time make cd keys and forget to include them in the box ... then send them out 4 weeks later... at least this way you can lay the blame on the manufacturer and give yourselves time to deliver what was advertized...

And yes I made my calls to my legislator... and my representitive is probably the most respected in my state... so I feel pretty **** good bout my chances of getting things worked out for the best thru those channels...

[Xyyth]

I don't get it. People want them to start work on a DL2? Ok, you might have a finished game in 5 years. It'll be 2010 before you see another DW Bradley game, if that. Procrastination runs rampant.

[Zyxial]

if you agree at least post something so these words hit the newcomers... please...

[GP05]

It might be helpful if they fixed the game, and then gave the registered owners of DL access to the first expansion pack for free (if it ever happens).

[Drene]

Sorry, but I hope they do.
I found the game difficult at spots (too many creatures spawning, no accuracy in melee hitting, and things of that nature)and the lighting dismal and too dark, but I read a lot about these "bugs and glitches" and I managed to finish the game without running into a single one.
I did download the patch about 2 days after I got the game, so that may have made a difference.
I also read through the forums and made sure I did some of the things mentioned- like not saving in room 4 of the elder trials.
Otherwise the game was fun, a little too "typical" of this genre, the difficulty level was high in some areas and low in others.
I just never ran across any of the problems other posters have mentioned which makes me wonder if it's truely "bugs" in the game or simple computer compatibility issues for some users?

[Runeblade]

Obviously they need to fix this game before working on an expansion let alone a DL 2. If they don't patch this one up proper..... :/ Anyhow I doubt theres going to be an expansion or a DL 2. heh

[Ranger]

Zyxial, that was an awesome post!! :) :) :) It is so true, if I just bought a six pack and found out it had no beer, by God, the brewery would burn!!

I also hope that any political action that ensues will be successful because I fear what has happened with DL may well continue to be the trend in the Computer game industry. Again, I quote my experience with Temple of Elemental Evil. Great game, but you simply could not complete v1.0 because of a few bugs that really should not have made it past the beta stage. Also, your point about people not having adequate internet connections is right on the money. It would seem alot of people have forgotten how frustrating it can be having a 56k modem. (Especially when you live in Australia and you can only download certain things from mirrors in either the USA or Europe = Slow speeds and getting timed out after downloading 80% :( ) I realise how fortunate I am having an adsl connection because I do not suffer from these problems and it is very wrong for the game producers and manufacturers to automatically assume that everyone who purchases their product has access to the internet with this capacity.

However, despite this, I still hope they release an expansion, if only to propagate this style of game which I greatly enjoy. Many people agree that the game has great potential (as was also the case with ToEE) and it would be a shame to lose it. Yet, I also think a clear message should be sent to the game producers and manufacturers that we, as consumers, should not be expected to buy shoddy, unfinished products and then patch it up. Hopefully, the threads on these forums will help to send that message. You are not flaming here, Zxyial, you are making an extremely valid and important point that should NOT be ignored or dismissed as "trolling". (God, I hate that term :rolleyes: :p )

[Tenka]

I hope they do start working on a DL2 after they finish DL1. But only if they dump Dreamcatcher as their publisher and find someone else more respectable.. at least then they will be able to produce a fully working game with all the support it needs and they wont be shortcheated by their publisher.

DL was stated over and over again by all reviews and players that it 'could have been a grat game', Dreamcatcher forced it out the door before it was ready and now everyone thinks its crap. If they were given the chance HP could make DL2 and make it better.

[Sssrah]

I would like to see them fix the major bugs, any bugs, b4 any expansion or whatever is even a dream for them to catch =P
Example- My wife and I have been playing in Co-op lan and have run into 2 game stoping bugs. 1 one of the doors in the Fathian keep closed behind us and would not open locking us in a room PERM. 2 After finishing all the elf quests and getting the magic mirror we still cant get in the Wizzies tower even though it says *using magic mirror* nada happens.
Ohh well color me a sucker for buying it the day it hit the shelf.

[Zyxial]

I must say although thoroughly ticked off about DL state as sold... this has been theraputic... I can actually feel Ranger laughing about the beer comments... Which has made me laugh about it all... and at this point was really needed...

Thanks all ... for your support, and remember to call your legislators today ... No I mean right now!!! don't say okay and not do it... cause this is going to keep happening if we don't get our acts together and make them feel the weight of their lies... And maybe one of you might be an attorney... in which case I authorize you fully to use my beer comparison in your summary arguments...

[Sigarr]

Zyxial Wrote:

Thanks all ... for your support, and remember to call your legislators today ... No I mean right now!!! don't say okay and not do it... cause this is going to keep happening if we don't get our acts together and make them feel the weight of their lies... And maybe one of you might be an attorney... in which case I authorize you fully to use my beer comparison in your summary arguments...

If you think that your Legislators,State or Federal, Are About to do anything for you Concerning this matter then You Are Dreaming. No Legislator is going to spend the Time Writing A Bill and then trying to Get it Introduced on the Floor of the Legislature. There is Nothing in it for them--PERIOD!
You Have TWO Options: 1. Retain an Attorney and Sue the Publisher for "False Advertisement" and Rely on the State And Federal Product laws which State,In Part::: " Any Product sold to the Public must Fully Meet the Requirement that it shall Be fit for the use Intended, Based upong the MFG.'s Publicized Information as Well an the Information Contained Within the Documentation Provided with the Product----"

2. File A Complaint Form with your States Attorney Generals Office-Div of Consumer Affairs. After you fill out a Lenghty Complaint Form aand Returned it then you Will be told that BEFORE they Will Take Any Action You will Need X numbers of other Consumers to Join in Your Complaint. Do not be Surprised to wait a Long time and NOTHING Happens--Because it Simply NEVER Does.

[Sigarr]

Tenka Wrote:

I hope they do start working on a DL2 after they finish DL1. But only if they dump Dreamcatcher as their publisher and find someone else more respectable.. at least then they will be able to produce a fully working game with all the support it needs and they wont be shortcheated by their publisher.
DL was stated over and over again by all reviews and players that it 'could have been a grat game', Dreamcatcher forced it out the door before it was ready and now everyone thinks its crap. If they were given the chance HP could make DL2 and make it better.
There is No Way HP Can Ever Get Rid of DreamCatcher because DC OWNS the Licensing Contract--All and Everything Pertaining to DL "Now And Forever" is Solely at the Discretion Of DC. Even IF Bradley Could Dump DC it would make No Difference at this Point Anyway. There is Simply No First-Rate Publisher Interested in this Game. Why do you think Bradley FINALLY had to Go through an International Consulting/Brokering Agency like Schanz International?

[txa1265]

I would be much more interested in the following:
- Numerous patches to fix the issues, make MP usable over the internet, and so on.
- A 'Plus' extension, ala Sacred Plus, that takes and extends the current game in the same area. Fill in the towns, make new accessible areas and weapons and so on. Based on the fact that this game was at least as problematic as Sacred when first released, the 'Plus' should cost the same ;)
- A real expansion pack that uses the same engine, and extends the area. Would obviously be a value priced expansion.

... then they can worry about a sequel.

Unfortunately, most of that costs $$ resources and generates little revenue ... I'm afraid that these guys (HP, not DC) will be 'doin' the Troika' long before DL2 could become a twinkle in their eyes ...

Mike

[Zyxial]

well I just wanted to say this... My representive is that willing to do things... He just negotiated a bill that allowed one private individual to retain property claimed by University of Illinois... Also passed a bill purely for my farming community of 1800 protecting it from an adult bookstore... extending the range distance that said business could be from a school or church... Like I've stated my legislator is absolutely the best... if he didn't do anything writing a bill he would still apply the pressure in the right places to bring about a change to this ever increasing problem...

I have an appointment with his office on Thursday, after talking with him on the phone, he wants me to bring the game, manual, and box to his office with me... Oh it may just be the State of Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan will take up the cause and file the suit for all of us... These people do care... at least here they do. So will see ... I will keep you all posted.

[Sigarr]

Be Sure and Do that. BTW,is this Local Representative you are going to talk with a Congressman or A Senator?
As Far as The Illinois Attorney General "Taking up the Cause and filing Suit for ALL OF US" that just is Not Possible. The Attorney General of Any State Can only Initiate Action for Residents of that State-Period! In Addition,it would be Extremely unusual For Your Attorney General to Initiate Any Action without First having a Number of Complaints Filed with the "Consumer Protection" Section of the Attorney Generals Office.
So, Please Do let Us know If and When Any action Is taken against Dreamcatcher in this matter. As a Practicing Attorney for 16 years I would Would be more than "Astounded" IF Anything happened.

[Zyxial]

well I am just a pissed of consumer... and I don't have your credentials... so maybe its all a smoke screen on his part... but there have been cases where attorney generals have done things for the good of the people in their said state... Oh for such a long practicing attorney what would you call the multi-state lawsuit vs. the tobacco companies... Or the lawsuit filed from the state vs. Firestone Tire Inc. ...

So although you maybe right.. until one tries you can never know... so quit being a nag with your degrees... **** you prob the type of attormey who people pay you to defend a perfectly defendable case and your best advice is take the plea... after of course they pay extreme fees for such terrible advice. So of course you can hit the golf course by 2pm and be home by 6pm...

And if your such a great attorney then wtf do you plan on doing about this ? Is it right they can advertize a product like they have and sell a totally different product. Gee although not life threatening as tobacco or tires it still has the same principles attached... and if you can't make your arguments from those 2 cases alone ... you my friend are probably a $140 /hr plea bargain attorney... but I'm not trying to knock you, just your approach to my statement. Which is true to the word... so please type something useful not derragatory to the cause... and to which I have to ask, you on DC's payroll aren't ya?

Consumers are protected by the attorney Generals of the states and yes you might have to go thru other channels first. But then you weren't intellectual enough to see maybe that I meant in the long road maybe 2 years from now something might take place on the Attorney General level. But hey what do I know ... remember I'm just a stupid fool who read a box, read a website, and said what a great game, and went out and bought something devoid of half the content I bought it for...

And you can beat me in your next post I am good with that... but I do know I am to see my Representative... And maybe he just a state Rep but you know thats why at the end of certain papers you see the writing this does not apply in Mi,FL, Il, Pa, ... some states actually do stuff that benefits just their state... and if all that comes about from this is they have to put a sticker on their box here in Illinois to state the product as described on box is not in the box. I would consider that a victory for all of us people who spend our money only to be screwed by some tie wearing geek, we would have wedgied and shoved in a locker in highschool...

[Sigarr]

Sorry You Took it that Way--I never Insulted You in Anyway nor called you Stupid.Nothing in My Post was Derogatory or Putting You Down for Trying. I was merely Pointing Out The Way this Type of Legal issues Is handled and what you were up against. I am Actually ONE of the Minority of Attorneys who Literally Have a Conscience and Do Not Gouge My Clients just to make a profit. I Often Charge My Clients Based upon their Income and,at times,even "Pro Bono" if I perceive their Cause is JUST and they are being Denied Justice By A Judicial System that Has Completely Turned a Deaf Ear on the Average Citizen who Cannot Afford The Tremendous Costs of so-called "High Profile Attorneys" to play the Game of "Legaleze Chess" in our Courts Today. That is What Our Judicial System has DEVOLVED into--Justice may Be "Blind" but it can Smell MONEY a mile Away! I Spend a Great many Hours every year,at Symposiums,Conventions,Urging My Colleagues To Join me and Put the Cause of Justice Before Personal Profit. Very Few Do Unfortunalely.
And,Yes,the Gaming Industry Desperately Needs "Controls" Imposed upon it but that will never happen Until There is Some Federal legislation Enacted to Specifically Outline the parameters of What they can and What they Cannot Do. And Since Big Corporations have Taken over the Gaming industry they Have Claimed that they are not Under the Restrictions Of the "Product" Laws.
I Believe they Are. I do not Believe any "EULA" or "TOS" Is legally Defensible but it would Take A Host Of Attorneys Years and years To Battle this Out in a Federal Court. Recently,When Blizzard Banned the Accounts of some 2500 Korean Players For using so-Called "Hacks" the Korean Government Told Blizzard that Unless these Banned Accounts of their Citizens Was not Reinstated Immediately they Would Sue them in International Court. Well, Blizzard was not so Stupid as To think they even had a Chance to Win that One and Reinstated the Banned Accounts. Would Our Government so Zealously Defend Our Rights. But Our Government is "PRO BIG BUSINESS" and there is hardly any Possiblity Anything will be done to help the Consumer. Sad,But True!

BTW--I was not one of those Guys you would Ever,Ever,for an Instant,thought about Giving a Wedgie or Shoving in a Locker.

[ByblosHex]

Sacred Plus actually in my eyes made the purchase worth it, even if I did get bored with the game quickly it was exacty what they promised it would be after PLUS was released. Of course they COULD do something like this with DL, but Sacred is the only game Ive ever known to be remade like that.

Im only buying from Pihranna Bites and Bethesda.

[Crispy]

This is truly one of the most bizarre threads I have ever read on the internet, ever.

I can understand getting worked up a little over DL because you can't customize the looks of your character (yet), there is no automap even though the manual says there is (yet) and there are a few little bugs. A emphasize a few because for many, many people this game runs perfectly without any crashes.

But what really floors me is the claim that an attorney of 16 years is present. Holy cow, with grammar like that I don't see how you ever passed the BAR!

What a whacky, whacky world we live in...

Good luck with your cause, though.

[eom]

I'm just wondering why his shift key is so sticky.......

[WiTcHbUrNeR]

Before I sink anymore money into ANYTHING having to do with DL I will be satisfied with the patch process. As it is now I quit playing while waiting for the patch. I am going to give them 1 shot to fix this to the point where I think that it is playable and then if it is still an unfinished piece of crap I am going to eBay it for $1. IF I have no takers I will take my shotgun and take out my frustrations on the disks.

Spend money for an expansion pack or a DL2. LMAO.

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me

I learn from my mistakes.

[Zyxial]

I have already done a no-no in responding to a thread I started but here I go again...

Its all good my attorney friend... was never really ticked at ya... Just sound like my mom... "You can't do that... cause blah, blah, bablaa..." Why I moved out...

And after all the major reviews have now been posted about the crappy state of this game and how its supposed to be revelutionary is all quite laughable... I wonder however if when they say revelutionary, they meant people marching towards capital hill with weapons in hand?

Yes, DW Bradley was smoking some awesome herbal supplements and sharing it with his co-workers... I think they should have put a pinch or 2 in the box for the rest of us to enjoy... how about a lickable sticker on the inside of the manual... So I can at least have the same experience they did when they were making the game. And maybe actually see what they meant about the water details. And I take back what I say about keeping your head high... Keep your head stuck in your arce so we don't have to smell your breathe or the stink coming out from your behind either. Dave man put the crack pipe down and walk away can't you see that crap is rotting your brain?

A revelutionary piece of work alright... it has made some of the worse games seem awesome... Good Job... after reading the IGN review ... I think I'll load up Blade of Darkness and play a truely revelutionary action RPG... that I may add is going on what 6 years old? Did you guys even play some of the games your claiming your piece of junk is better than? Oh that's right to busy at Dave's house hitting the 12 man bong.

You guys should have just bought the rights for Blade and made a sequel to it... no, actually don't, you'd find a way to destroy that as well.

And IMO until somebody makes something that catches my loins on fire like Blade did I won't give it a revelutionary title... just shooting the bow in Blade makes your game suck big dudes and dorks... dude - hair on elephants behind... dork- a male whale's procreation attachment (lol... I didn't want banned for saying the actual meaning as read thru websters).

[Zyxial]

Well had the meeting yesterday with State Rep... Appears he finds this extremely interesting... Hummm maybe he thinking of all the young votes he could capture... told you so.

In anycase, he said he would do his utmost to see this was taken to the proper people and thru the proper channels. Which probably won't do much good anytime soon. I spoke and he listened in earnest and found we had just complaints even with the EULA... As the EULA was not agreed to at purchase and of course the severe amounts of BS on the box and located thru-out the web. Yes, I even took him thru the interviews before release and the reviews from major review sites...

So will see... OH YOU NEGLIGENT SOFTWARE COMPANIES HEAR THE CONSUMERS ROAR!!!!

[phalzyr]

Dreamcatcher forced it out the door before it was ready and now everyone thinks its crap. If they were given the chance HP could make DL2 and make it better.

They were given a chance it is called a contract they signed to have it done by said date for so much money investment. DC even let then push that date back several times/months and they still didn't complete it. HP is at fault fully for the state it is in, they should of made a more realistic goal in how long it'd take to finish, and not let DC push them inot a shorter time agreement(if that is the case). they should of worked harder to meet the dead line and/or hired more people to help them meet it. I don't agree with DC making them release it in this state, they should of either axed it completely or given it more time and made a deal with HP for more of the profit to cover their investment. As It is releasing it in this state is going to cost them more than waiting another month...

[txa1265]

So what would a lawsuit entail?

As far as I can tell:
- The game is more stable than many currently released.
- The 'quality' is a very subjective thing ... does that mean every game on GameRankings <60% is up for a lawsuit?
- Most of the 'issues' are again subjective - interactions? Sure there are many, whether or not they meet expectations becomes subjective.

The only thing I can find that is 'false advertising' is the lack of an automap and appearance customization, and perhaps right/left handedness if you count the online help text.

So if they patch those, does the lawsuit go away?

Personally, I don't understand why we should be looking to make government bigger and have a larger encroachment into our personal lives just because we bought a game we weren't satisfied with.

Mike

[Shock]

These guys aren't making much money off the game as it is. I think a lawsuit over this broken game is a bit extreme. The reason everyone is upset is because everyone had high hopes for this game. Everyone wanted to love this game but the problems with it make it very difficult.

The most they deserve is a good ragging on these messageboards and elsewhere. If they release half-finished games like this, they should be able to take having their names dragged in the dirt. It's better than a lawsuit.

The solution is to fix the game and not ever let something like this happen again.

[spockperfect]

Don't worry, it takes D W Bradley 4-5 years to put out games that AREN'T complete, so a full finished game would probably take him about 6-7 Years ;)

[POQWAD]

Well...checking back to see if "soon" had arrived yet. Apparently not.

I'm certainly with xyz on this one. And as far as I'm concerned, the "geniuses" behind DL could do expansion packs and DL 2 thru 100, I will not buy another game that DC, HP, or Bradley are associated with.

On a side note, I've been playing Gothic 2. Wow. Towns with people, furniture, things to do...

...now THERE's a novel idea, Mr. Bradley...

[Shock]

Don't worry, it takes D W Bradley 4-5 years to put out games that AREN'T complete, so a full finished game would probably take him about 6-7 Years ;)


haha (high 5)
http://www.nenyovariancancer.org/high%20five.jpg

[txa1265]

On a side note, I've been playing Gothic 2. Wow. Towns with people, furniture, things to do...
I've been doing some Gothic II today as well ... boy I love that game ...

Mike

[Shock]

They should market this messageboard as a game and sell it.

Call it "Cusstomer Service Rep"

[Zyxial]

look I don't like big government either... and I don't want to kill a company... but the truth is the software industry is very unregulated which was fine over the last 15 years... but this incomplete game crap is becoming an epidemic and I truly feel it is not a necessity but as it seems everyone is out for the quick buck instead of making quality products and services it may be time for legislators to do something... and as americans we wonder why tech jobs and factory goods have moved to other countries...

I work in 2 industries where customers demand high expectations of me... And I'm not getting rich... So why is it so hard to understand that I expect to at least recieve the level of product or service as described without downloading anything... And neither should you...

Like I said all I would like to see in the future is to at least see a sticker or label that contains " this box does not contain what is listed on box" if companies are continued to be allowed to do this sort of thing...

And I like the fact the woman who got the pledge of allegience banned from schools , ended up missing for 15 years to only be found buried in her own backyard... So your conception of what I am doing has been blurred...

There is no Lawsuit... as to my knowledge but a little regulation to say "we don't mind if you do this but it will cost you..." Hey man if I gotta pay extra taxes on smokes, beer, gas, and then send my kids to school with toilet paper your da mn right they should be fined or whatever else they seem fit... this is what I vote for and pay taxes to pay those over-paid politicians to do... Amen.

[POQWAD]

Testify, brother!

Hopefully something will eventually come of all this. It'll take a while. Maybe years...

Which, in Dreamcaster Speak, is "Soon" I suppose... :)

[Shock]

I saw a couple of reviews that said the storyline was shallow. DW Bradley usually isn't known for making games with shallow storylines is he?

[mastergerard]

many expected much of DL.. sadly its a bit frustrating.. what i think is they are afraid to compete to elder scrolls since they are new to this 3rd person rpg.. a advice to the programmers make a game not to sell lots but to make people wanting it more... maybe thats why they produced it unprepaired or thoroughly checkd coz elder scroll IV: OBLIvion is releasing this comming december and they dont want to compete to that which is why it has bugs AN NO MAP grrrrrrrrr... anyway the next DL2 Or simply call it DL (coz i hardly find this DL a game it might be a DEMO) make sure it is polished..

[mastergerard]

Elder Scrolls Iv: Oblivion Rocks Hope I Wont Be Marred With Bugs Such As This Dl.....

[mastergerard]

it wont help if you sue them! Dont DL is not bad just too buggy just let them fix it you can complain but dont ruin PC industry... its already very frustrating since ps2 games arent produce in pc format now you want to destroy a pc company???? men just let them learn their mistakes.. nobodys perfect either.. and im still pretty much excited of elder scrolls 4.... hehehehhe anyhow fix the game please i cant wait 1-2 weeks... oh please make it this week!!!! =D

[Zyxial]

well I guess then they should try a bit harder not to lie to the consumer... and as well at least beta-test their product... or find better beta-testers than their 5 yr old nephews.

[Zyxial]

at least no one else out here asking for DL2... lol.

be lucky of they finish the first Ladies and Germs...

[NecroViolator]

Hmmmm.....
Wonder if they still should of used a Different Game Engine... :confused: