Deadlines, unfinished games, patches...

[OrdinaryHero]

An open letter to Heuristic Park ( NOT FLAMING! )

I am playing only RPGs and Dungeon Lords was a promising one! I couldnt wait the time to get hold a copy of the game! I couldnt believe all the bad reviews and the on going flaming in forums. But...
After 39 euro ( 1 euro is 1 USD ) and some minutes to install (it looked to me like ages) I was at last able to start playing. But...
I read here in the forum that HP (HeuristicPark, the developers) had ...deadlines (?) and that this is all about patching. But...
Like a gamer I feel that I have been fooled to buy a game that it is not ready yet. I can not even listen to the deadline thingy because I believe that when HP was signing with DC (DreamCatcher, the publisher) they KNEW what they were doing. I can not believe that DC forced them to take out so soon the game, or maybe HP guys don't know so well English or they didn't even read what they were signing! (I don't want to offend anyone...)
Patches? If you want to make games that will make an impact in the gaming community there are 2 ways.

1. Make a GREAT game that needs no patching at all, or at least minor changes.

2. Make a game that has so many bugs and ..."missing" futures, as good things.

I have the bad feeling that Dungeon Lords belongs to the second category. And I am twice sad because I wanted so much to play the game (and I still want!).
I am not flaming the game. I am writing down my thoughts (and forgive my bad English please...). I believe the game is unfinished and it shouldn't be out in the stores. I also believe that beta testing (what actually gamers did with the game) asking money (39 euro) is a ...bad policy for the developers (or the publisher)!
I bought the game so I think I have the right to ...shout a little:

I want to play the game FINISHED!
I want to play the game WITH NO BUGS! (as less as possible at last...)

You had a great opportunity there... I don't want any apologies. Next time you do a game HP guys, FINISH IT! Be certain that I will be one of the first to buy it!

Thank you

[Reguile]

Another thread to HP that says the same thing :) They dont bother to check the forums, Ordinary.

[Runeblade]

Good post. It's what many of us are saying / thinking.

[txa1265]

Another thread to HP that says the same thing :) They dont bother to check the forums, Ordinary.

Not really. This one tries to be respectful and honestly express frustration and sadness and disappointment using eloquence rather than expletives. He doesn't flame them as so many do - he talks rather than yells.

Perhaps the fact that I sympathize with someone who will make an effort to write a well-thought out post in a non-native language rather than a rant makes me a fanboy, so be it. I think most here, especially those here for more than a year or so, are at least somewhat disappointed with the last couple of months ... many of us have enjoyed the game anyway, all the while knowing what makes us sad about the whole thing.

Mike

[knightslove]

it's really not that bad a game. all games have to have patches when they come out. i bought vampires bloodlines the day it came out - i loved the game even though it crashed quite regularly (learned to save often) and had several bad bugs - if it's a good game i just deal with the bugs and enjoy. I have yet to buy one that doesn't need a patch.

[Sigarr]

it's really not that bad a game. all games have to have patches when they come out. i bought vampires bloodlines the day it came out - i loved the game even though it crashed quite regularly (learned to save often) and had several bad bugs - if it's a good game i just deal with the bugs and enjoy. I have yet to buy one that doesn't need a patch.

You are Quite Mistaken that ALL Games need patches. You obviously did not Buy the Three Games Bradley made with Sir-Tech--the 3 Games that brought Him Fame and Made him a Ton Of Money. Not One of these Games needed a patch. Thats Because Sir-Tech was a First-Rate Publisher who Worked hand-in-hand with the Developer,Bradley, to Make a Completed and Polished Product Before it was ever Released to the Retail Stores. This Is the Huge Difference between a First-Rate publisher and a Publisher You Have to "Settle" for by going through an Agency since You ( the Developer ) have had NO Success in Securing a First-Rate Publisher on you Own.

[Lev]

Yesterday I made Ulm Castle one more time and I really enjoyed it. Very interesting, quite challenging and no problems/bugs.

I didn't like the Open Letter of Ordinary Hero. Words about making first great game and then think about the money can not be taken serious. Idea about making games without bugs can not be a great news to this world either. Everyone knows about it. Can you give us some explanation why we still have unfinished game while everyone knows that it's not a good thing? Answer on this question would be more interesting.

So, looks like it's a flame after all.

[txa1265]

all games have to have patches when they come out.

See, I think that is unacceptable. Consoles don't have that luxury, they can't have this massive string of patches. I am understanding to an extent - tweaks in gameplay especially in multi-player games, for instance. I even understand that there is uncertainty of performance across various hardware and drivers. But not the way it has become acceptable for a game to ship with a significant amount of certainty around issues happening, or known holes needing to be patched.

Mike

[Lev]

You are Quite Mistaken that ALL Games need patches. You obviously did not Buy the Three Games Bradley made with Sir-Tech--the 3 Games that brought Him Fame and Made him a Ton Of Money. Not One of these Games needed a patch.

Yes, but things are changing. The amount of resources and money that you have to spend on the game like DL is hundreds/thousands times greater nowadays. For example, the image of a monster took 10-20 pixels some time ago. And look at the giant troll or goblin mage in DL? Animation, movement, AI - everything is changed.

That's where the real problem is. There comes a time when almost nobody can make a good game anymore. Probably Oblivion and Gothic 3 will be last real CRPGs.

[POQWAD]

"Bugs" don't bother me. Unless, of course, they are game-ruining ones.

Bugs can be patched.

My concern is that DL goes way beyond a bug problem. It is very far from completion. Many elements (some even referred to in the manual) are simply non-existant.

And they released the game, KNOWING that. Either they had to know the bad reaction/reviews that this release would cause or:

A: They didn't care.
B: They thought we wouldn't care. Or notice.
C: They are trying to get as much revenue in as fas as they can because they are in danger of going under.
D: Some of the above.
E: All of the above.
F: None of the above.

It's not for me to know. I'm just a consumer who reasonably expected to get what was promised.

Nothing more.

And certainly nothing less.

[Runeblade]

all games have to have patches when they come out. Doom 3 certainly didn't need a patch. I played it all the way through without a problem. No bugs, no crashes, no missing stuff.

[knightslove]

can't wait for oblivion, and no i didn't buy those three - don't know how old they are - i was speaking of the ones that have come out in the last year or so - graphics are so awesome - my old rpgs never needed a patch. like vampire redemption - don't know whether it had a patch or not but i never had a problem with it. graphics are alot lower quality too. old C&C games like red alert 2, yuri's revenge, renegade - didn't need to patch those. generals and zero hour I did get the patch - i think the higher quality graphics have a lot to do with it.

[txa1265]

Doom 3 certainly didn't need a patch. I played it all the way through without a problem. No bugs, no crashes, no missing stuff.

*You* might not have, but it *did* get patched up to 1.3.

But, as stated, there is a big difference between patching to deal with a driver comparibility conflict and patching because the game will be unfinishable if you trigger a glitch at a certain point - a glitch that seemed to hit ~50% of people. One is dealing with diversity of hardware, the other is not debugging and testing enough.

Mike

[Xyyth]

it's really not that bad a game. all games have to have patches when they come out. i bought vampires bloodlines the day it came out - i loved the game even though it crashed quite regularly (learned to save often) and had several bad bugs - if it's a good game i just deal with the bugs and enjoy. I have yet to buy one that doesn't need a patch.


Yeah, but come on, there are empty buildings, missing NPCs, and just missing elements all around due to rushing this game out. I think Bloodlines at least had all the content in it even though there were bugs. DL is missing content that would have made the game better.

[knightslove]

yeah the empty buildings..lack of furniture - sucks. but it didn't affect my gameplay. i just finished playing morrowind last - so i'm probably ruined as far as wanting detailed environments/houses and lots of NPC's. it's like going from a Dali exhibit to a kindergarten classes artboard. but i'm still enjoying it 8-) Armies of Exigo is the next one for me. it got good reviews..we shall see.