False advertising at official website

[malvado]

Go to http://www.dungeonlordsgame.com/main.php and read about the game

"Dungeon Lords is a new breed of epic Fantasy RPG, a unique combination of RPG and Fighter game action in full 3D, featuring a deep storyline shrouded in mystery, surprise, and betrayal. Dungeon Lords is loaded with quests, personal missions, extensive skills and special abilities for customizing your own character hero from a variety of races and multiple class specializations, as you journey through an enchanted land of ancient castles, dark forests, and dungeon lairs braving an army of diabolical foes in real time action packed combat to uncover the secrets lying hidden within the depths of an evolving storyline. Dungeon Lords can be played either single-player stand alone, or in multi-player group sessions.

*Non-stop game action and exploration in full 3rd person 3D, including outdoor wilderness, swamps, forests, mountains, arctic lands, towns, villages, castles, dungeons, temples, caves, and forbidden ruins.

*Loads of personal quests and missions, featuring a world full of NPC characters to interact and bargain with, some who may become your ally, others who may be your enemy."

I have underlined the more interesting parts of the text, the main site says that the game has Artic areas, caves and mountains in it, however I know for a fact that such areas are not in the game, yes there are elevations, but that are more of a hilltop than a bloody mountain area.

You also get the idea that the game comes LOADED with quests (and side quests) something which is not correct, the game has 1 Main goal and some class orientated quests but not 1 optional non essential side quest in the game which goal is solely to give the game some depth and background.

And as for character who might become your ally / enemy thats somewhat the same as to say that you may recruit npcs to your pary, also notice that the text states that the game is packed with a world "FULL" of npc's to interact with and bargain with...

Also the web site still contains links to a certain page wich detail a picture of fully functionally automap : http://www.dungeonlordsgame.com/images/in/screenshots/scrn0002.jpg

So between the previews, the interviews of D.W. Bradley and the feedback from the demo forums , we the customers who believed in DL as our RPG messiah were S*CREWED badly by D.W. Bradley and his inability to deliver what he has envisioned and promised to the fan community.

Next time I see a D.W. Bradley game (or HP/DC game for that case) I'm gonna call my shrink on advance and bill it to them.

[Runeblade]

I have underlined the more interesting parts of the text, the main site says that the game has Artic areas, caves and mountains in it, however I know for a fact that such areas are not in the game, yes there are elevations, but that are more of a hilltop than a bloody mountain area. Yep and it also says Caves on the back of the box. Also in an interview Mr Bradley said the game would have Sun-Parched Lands and Rain Forests. Oh well...

What bugs me is if you could gather up all the missing stuff and make a seperate game it would have more content than the one they released. LOL. Crazy.

[Tonedeff]

Still alot to come, man how many threads can you make and complain, come on people lets be patient and wait for an update. I dont think all this wining is helping the creators only stressing them.

[Patch61]

When one's money is taken by fraud, one has a right to complain. Is it right to condemn such a person? Do you propose that we cheer on the perpetrator, continuing to believe that this will ever be what we were told it will be? Yes, they will patch a few things up, but they are not going to add all the missing content.

[Runeblade]

Still alot to come, man how many threads can you make and complain, come on people lets be patient and wait for an update. I dont think all this wining is helping the creators only stressing them. A 1.2 or 1.3 patch won't change much I don't think. I got lots of enjoyment out of Dungeon Lords and I think it's a cool game but it bugs the **** out of me that they didn't finish it and I ended up buying and playing a Beta. I would've preferred to wait anouther year and paid more for the finished game than buying a $40 Beta pre-release. Somebody needs to complain and make the Publishers and Devs notice what we think and feel. It's not fair for a game box and manual plus a website to advertise all this stuff that's not even in-game. It's okay tho because they 'have the special going on' with a patch.

Maybe I should go play Morrowind or somethin and chill out. I didn't intend to become a whiner. Meh.

[darkpoet]

Yes, they will patch a few things up, but they are not going to add all the missing content.

I keep hoping they will patch it all in eventually. Or atleast release a free downloadable expansion/add-on to address this.......I seem remember another game releasing a free offical expansion/add-on in the past.

It would be in their best interest considering what has happened.

[Welshboss]

Even though this sounds like a trades discription violation. the game itself is still good. Maybe later on there will be add on packs with these features once the main patching is completed. But I still say that my old PS2 game Drakan The Ancient's Gates has all those missing features and 10 times NPC's to talk to and interact with. Plenty of non story critical quests to do too.
The magic aspect in this game over Drakan is the only real improvement considering Drakan was released 3-4 years ago.

[POQWAD]

If they haven't managed to produce even a halfway finished game in some five years of trying...

...why should I believe they will EVER finish it?

Why, for that matter, should I believe anything they have to say?

[HonorBound]

Then SUE them...



...good luck!

(LAME)

[klopas]

Then SUE them...



...good luck!

(LAME)


There actually should be a class action type lawsuit filed for blatantly false advertisement. Those who bought the game for $39.99 were expecting it to be complete, not in pre-beta stages. With the amount of false advertisement on the retail box, website, et cetera, whether it was premeditated or not, it shouldn't be acceptable -- it's plain unethical.

[derf17]

"featuring a world full of NPC characters to interact and bargain with, some who may become your ally, others who may be your enemy."

-that could have been very cool. :cool: too bad the game is unfinished.. but enough with the "unfinished game issue" just hurry up with the patch - the quoted part above would be cool please include it next time ( i mean the patch after 1.2 or 1.3; after fixing the major bugs), if u can. :)

[Sigarr]

Well,its quite clear that We are Never going to see a FINISHED Game no matter how Many Patches MAY come out-I wouldn't Look For too many because the Game is FINISHED-DEAD in the marketplace where it Counts. Most Major Retailers still have as much as 50% of their INITIAL order on their Shelves. There Will not be any SECOND Orders of the Game from these Major Retailers. With Sales this DISMAL Dreamcatcher MAY Break even ( and thats ONLY because as "Funding Publisher" they get their "Funding Money" straight off the "TOP" of Initial Sales. The Developer-(Heuristic Park-Bradley) is definitely going to Lose Money. With NO HOPE of Future Sales Increasing it is just a matter of Time before The Publisher Decides to "Throw in the Towel" and cease any further "Funding" of patches or Further Development. HP does not have the money to do it on their own. Its the market Place-SALES- that ultimately decides the Success or Failure of a Product. In this case it has been a Dismal Failure.
Sadly,with this Fiasco, Bradley has Badly Tarnished His Once Stellar Reputation as a Game Designer to the Point that he NEVER Will Be able to get any First-Rate Publisher Interested in Funding ANYTHING He Comes up With. Most Likely Bradley will end up Bankrupt and Will have to Find other means of 'making a living'. Truly Sad!

[Poot]

I am sure all of this negativity really helps HP & DC in wanting to hurry their patch. Really, guys, no wonder Chuk22 and bgaum have quit replying to the forums. Yes, our rights have been violated girly men. ;) They will get the patche(s) out when they are done. I am very saddened that the patch was not out last Friday, but I am sure DC & HP had their reasons for not releasing the patch. They knew the consequences of not releasing this on Friday. They also knew the consequences of releasing a patch that was not quite done. Who knows, DC may only fund one more patch and not two like HP is planning. D.W. Bradley & HP may not have the funding to release another unofficial patch as they did for W&W back in 2000.

[chance]

In case you didn't know, there is a class action lawsuit in the early stages of being organized. One of the customers that purchased this game works for the Consumer Protection Agency.

I'll join the suit, as Dreamcather totally lacks business ethics.

[sonofnone]

In case you didn't know, there is a class action lawsuit in the early stages of being organized. One of the customers that purchased this game works for the Consumer Protection Agency.

I'll join the suit, as Dreamcather totally lacks business ethics.

I'll join also, i've been in a couple of class action suits already and won both of them.

[Makkarune]

They will get the patche(s) out when they are done.


And you know this for sure how?

Truthfully, I don't think they would have done much patching at all if it wasn't for our collective "whining" (just using the standard f-boy jargon here)and the (now) very real possibility of a class action suit. Remember when they weren't going to give us an automap because it would ruin our gameplay? It seems that "whining" works.

I've never understood this "shhhhhh...you might make them mad and they will never give us patches then!!!" attitude. It's not a parent/child relationship where they have all the power. They owe us these features they promised on the box and in the manual. Why do people not get this? It's false advertising to say it's there when it isn't -- plain and simple.

Personally, I think they probably produced all the packaging way prior to the release which is what caused most of these problems. Hence, the goofy rubber-banded disks and the empty one-cd holder with the key.

[POQWAD]

I suspect they gave up on this game LONG ago. After five or so years it should become pretty obvious that it's never going to be finished. The game engine is already a dinosaur. And apparently badly cobbled together with a myriad of code problems.

They released the game to recoup what money they could.

They *MAY* produce a patch or two. But nothing much of any consequence. What we have is pretty much it.

[Xyyth]

Well,its quite clear that We are Never going to see a FINISHED Game no matter how Many Patches MAY come out-I wouldn't Look For too many because the Game is FINISHED-DEAD in the marketplace where it Counts. Most Major Retailers still have as much as 50% of their INITIAL order on their Shelves. There Will not be any SECOND Orders of the Game from these Major Retailers. With Sales this DISMAL Dreamcatcher MAY Break even ( and thats ONLY because as "Funding Publisher" they get their "Funding Money" straight off the "TOP" of Initial Sales. The Developer-(Heuristic Park-Bradley) is definitely going to Lose Money. With NO HOPE of Future Sales Increasing it is just a matter of Time before The Publisher Decides to "Throw in the Towel" and cease any further "Funding" of patches or Further Development. HP does not have the money to do it on their own. Its the market Place-SALES- that ultimately decides the Success or Failure of a Product. In this case it has been a Dismal Failure.
Sadly,with this Fiasco, Bradley has Badly Tarnished His Once Stellar Reputation as a Game Designer to the Point that he NEVER Will Be able to get any First-Rate Publisher Interested in Funding ANYTHING He Comes up With. Most Likely Bradley will end up Bankrupt and Will have to Find other means of 'making a living'. Truly Sad!

You might be right there, but there's still the European and Asian market. If they fix and complete the game as intended, they may still have a chance. I am still holding out on playing until it is patched as much to completion as possible. It may be next year, but I want to play the game and experience the quests and story in its entirety and not its partiality.

[Runeblade]

You might be right there, but there's still the European and Asian market. If they fix and complete the game as intended, they may still have a chance. I am still holding out on playing until it is patched as much to completion as possible. It may be next year, but I want to play the game and experience the quests and story in its entirety and not its partiality. I wish I would've done that.

[EmilyH]

In case you didn't know, there is a class action lawsuit in the early stages of being organized. One of the customers that purchased this game works for the Consumer Protection Agency.

Didn't hear about that. It would be nice to get my money back. But I can't do that now that the box is opened.

[acemon0]

You might be right there, but there's still the European and Asian market. If they fix and complete the game as intended, they may still have a chance. I am still holding out on playing until it is patched as much to completion as possible. It may be next year, but I want to play the game and experience the quests and story in its entirety and not its partiality.

Yes that is why i quit playing. I check back every other day to see if a patch is out?
Untell i see a patch i gess I'll be playing other games that i have not finish playing yet si i'm in no hurry.
besides i rather see a good working patch.

[raybo1246]

I to would like to add my name to the lawsuite. Gamers have rights. :mad:

[Poot]

And you know this for sure how?

Just my opinions. I don't know anyone @ HP or DC.

[Wipeout65]

I just went into an Electronics boutique store in Maryland and didn't see one copy on the shelf, I asked the guy if he carried the game and he told me that after the initial 20 they first recieved 40% of customers tried returning the game and the last 6 game boxes removed from the "new games wall" and placed in the stock room to be removed only if people asked for it. The guy said "you really don't want to buy this do you?" and recommended Guild wars instead (which i'm glad I already bought on release) I said no and asked if Dungeon lords would be discounted soon, he said the way sales were going they would be lucky to give them away for free. On the other hand though, Walmarts are just getting their copies in and have shelves of them, so the distributer is still churning them out, hopefully now not with the extra disk 2 :)

No, I'm glad I played the demo and read these forums, I would have probably bought it today if patch 2 was out yesterday. I guess i'll get it from a $5.99 bargain bin at Ollies in a few weeks patches or not.

[Drano]

I personally feel it does not matter how much we complain, bicker, and whine on these forums. They simply do not care. Nearly all of these posts obviously go unread. This can be seen in the fact that none of the threads which contain 'complaints' have been deleted as they said they would. The only way to get throught to these people would be a lawsuite or mass murder of Dreamcatcher uppermanagment (kinda like what happened in Dogma with the golden cow). And i'm leaning more towards the later than the former

[Zedrow]

Maybe I should go play Morrowind or somethin and chill out. I didn't intend to become a whiner. Meh.

That is exactly what I did. I forgot how deep that game really is. The part I (now) appreciate a lot is the choice of paths to take and the different things a character can do.


As far as false advertizing goes, if I bought Monopoly and there weren't any houses in the game but twice the number of hotels, I would return it.

If I bought a toaster that only toasted one side of the bread, I would return it.

The downfall is that with games like this being released as finished, more and more people will turn to downloading/torrenting pirated games to "test" first before buying.

As much as I can appreciate the time put into the design and programming of these games, it is hard to argue that a consumer shouldn't "test drive" a game before purchase, especially when it is getting harder and harder to exchange/return games that are not as advertized.

Well back to Morrowind until the next patch release.

Zed

[Lev]

Having 1-2 real RPGs per year I think that it would be better to think about increasing this number. How can we increase it? That's the quest for you.

[Lev]

If I bought a toaster that only toasted one side of the bread, I would return it.

Right. Then you go and by another toaster. If you return DL then you can not go and get another one. See the difference?

[Hacknshoot]

I personally feel it does not matter how much we complain, bicker, and whine on these forums. They simply do not care. Nearly all of these posts obviously go unread. This can be seen in the fact that none of the threads which contain 'complaints' have been deleted as they said they would. The only way to get throught to these people would be a lawsuite or mass murder of Dreamcatcher uppermanagment (kinda like what happened in Dogma with the golden cow). And i'm leaning more towards the later than the former
The reason the threads aren't being deleted is because they aren't bashing the developers of the game. Complaining about the game wouldn't do anything.

[Patch61]

Right. Then you go and by another toaster. If you return DL then you can not go and get another one. See the difference?

If he knew that all the toasters of that particular brand worked the same way, he would get a different brand.

Bringing that analogy to games, he could get a different game.

[Zedrow]

If he knew that all the toasters of that particular brand worked the same way, he would get a different brand.

Bringing that analogy to games, he could get a different game.

Exactly!

Or go back to an old, stable game and wait.

[Visigoth]

Yep... there is a whole lot of false advertising going on with this puupy.

[Shock]

Right. Then you go and by another toaster. If you return DL then you can not go and get another one. See the difference?

Sure you could. Return one game and get something else you haven't played.
I do fear someone might have proof and basis for a lawsuit, but I'm not sure how that would get the game fixed for those who would like to play it in its entirety.

[Emulated]

thats is typhoon games site......the official one is here
http://www.dungeonlords.com/
not that i dont agree ;)

[malvado]

thats is typhoon games site......the official one is here
http://www.dungeonlords.com/
not that i dont agree ;)

No problem at all, just click features and you will still see the false advertising on that site too...

[Sigarr]

I suspect they gave up on this game LONG ago. After five or so years it should become pretty obvious that it's never going to be finished. The game engine is already a dinosaur. And apparently badly cobbled together with a myriad of code problems.

They released the game to recoup what money they could.

They *MAY* produce a patch or two. But nothing much of any consequence. What we have is pretty much it.

Congratulations POQWAD, You have Hit the Nail Squarely "ON-THE -HEAD!".

[Gorric]

If there was a big enough class action lawsuit put together that managed to get the News Medias attention we could create the catalyst for change. The gaming industry would defiantly be paying attention if that happened and maybe a few lawmakers as well.

[Sigarr]

In case you didn't know, there is a class action lawsuit in the early stages of being organized. One of the customers that purchased this game works for the Consumer Protection Agency.

I'll join the suit, as Dreamcather totally lacks business ethics.

Well, I sure Didn't know that and,as an Attorney,I have to Wonder HOW you Know it. And Just What "Consumer protection Agency" are you talking about?
Every State has a "Consumer protection Agency" Section of the Attorney Generals Office of that State. And then there is the Federal "Consumer Protection Agency" Which one are you Referring to? If State-Specify the State. And State CPA's Do Not initiate Class action lawsuits-Period! State CPA's Only React when they have Received A Sufficient Number of Complaints against a particular Vendor from their Residents. Even when they have a Sufficient Number they can Only Follow the laws already in the Statutes.In this case,a letter of Inquiry would be Sent to Dreamcatcher outlining the Complaints. No Doubt Dreamcatcher would Reply,as the Entire Gaming Industry has Claimed, that they are in a "Unique" Category and are not "Liable" under the Rules Governing the Sales of "Products". And since there Has been No Federal Legislation Specifically addressing this issue (and most likely never will be) that would be the END OF THE MATTER! As A matter of Course, Neither Federal nor State CPA's Iniate Class action Lawsuits unless the Complaints Include,Maiming,Death and the Destruction of REAL Property.
Just as Someone else posted Sometime ago, You have thrown out,as FACT, a Wild,Contrived DREAM without any Substantion whatsoever-merely A generalized Statement that has No Validity. Give SPECIFICS,or otherwise fade back into your "Dreamworld" Like the other Guy Did.

[smakdownklown]

Wow.....you are an attorney??? Can you be an attorney with grammer like that?

[Gorric]

Sigarr, Sigarr (shakes Head) there you go again, you know on one hand you seem to be on the side of the customers who feel that they’ve been short changed or unsatisfied with the game in some way and then you switch and seem to be in the DC, HP camp like your working for them trying to run a little interference. Frankly I’m getting tired of hearing about what can’t be done, if you’re such a smart guy, why don’t you tell all of us here, what you think we could do.

[Emulated]

Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, D.C's attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client wrote "Dungeon Lords" five years ago. And they make a good case. he11, I almost felt pity myself!
But ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: Ladies and gentlemen this [pointing to a picture of Chewbacca] is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee—an eight foot tall Wookiee—want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!
But more important, you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!
Look at me, I'm a lawyer defending a major gameing company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation... does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense.
If Chewbacca lived on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

[Drano]

SOUTHPARK!!

Back to the toaster bit-why not buy a second deficient toaster and put the two together to make one working toaster... Wish i could do that with this game because i could buy a second one of these for five dollars

[freshjuice]

Wow.....you are an attorney??? Can you be an attorney with grammer like that?

I was thinking the same thing...

My guess is he's an attorney from Greenland ... maybe Tibet?

[Ernest]

No need to bash Sigarr just because he posts his opinion here. I've seen enough typos and bad grammar online to last a lifetime. For the most part, his insight and observations seem pretty accurate. Last thing we need is to drive off a voice of reason just because his typing may be relatively weak.

I doubt any class action suit will arise or survive long if it does--it's simply too difficult to convince a judge to certify a class these days, and there's not enough money in it for any attorney to take the case. Maybe some RICO action could occur against the industry as a whole, but the Republicans (no I don't want to get into a political debate) have gutted those laws.

To the person who suggested that his opening the box destroyed his rights--he couldn't be more wrong. Despite what the industry likes you to believe, shrinkwrap licenses are of highly questionable enforceability. Sigarr posted in another thread a terrific strategy to use in order to return a product. That no one does it (often) is a measure of our apathy and the amount of money involved per individual--both of which, of course, the industry relies on in order to continue foisting this "false advertising" upon us.

[Zyxial]

Well if our local $400/hr plea bargain attorney, who mind you only graduated with a 2.1 grade ave from the University of Fidel Castro, isn't again showing off his own lack of intelligence, yet again.

I would point you to my post: "Everything You need To Know" (if you want to hear more of this pro-bono public defender's thoughts).

And don't listen to him anyhow... Because I ask you this. How does a law become a law? How do regulations get put on industries? And forget the cause damage, bodily harm, destruction of personal property horse manure he spitting. How many laws exist that prevent none of the above? So you mean to tell me it is illegal in most states to have oral sex because someone could die(well maybe if your John Holmes)? Or that some states have laws against anything but missionary position? Or a brother and a sister can't wed? Or an elderly teacher can't have sex with a willing male student (being male myself I wished a couple of my teachers would have). Or I can't have 16 wives if I can put up with all their bit-chin Or I can't tie my horse within town limits? Or keep a pig as pet? Or lets mention the fact that marijuana is illegal but yet to be proven as dangerous other than making you hungry and for some its medicinal benefits far outweigh any consequence. Hummm or maybe what about noise pollution laws? Or maybe how come we are not allowed to spit on the ground? Although some of these may be offensive to some, others it is okay.

Lately there has been a lot of talk of banning smoking cause it is a health hazard. Well what about SUV's and their severely poor emission standards? Or the fact they are guzzling gas(oil) so fast in ten years we all going to be shooting each other for a gallon of milk. Or what about cell phones? or Any microwave emitting device? These cause cancer and it is proven. High-power tension wires? Nothing is done about this stuff because the whiners always win out. Most true Americans don't mind a pledge of Allegeince but because some foreign woman didn't want her kid to have to say we all can't... Whiners win people...

In short call your legislator and whine like there is no tomorrow cause with this game they will never get to the finished state so readily advertised... Whine my brothers and sisters...

And again I will state my beer analogy here... If you buy a six pack of long necks, get it home, read about the nice refreshing liquid inside, twist the cap and get a nice, crisp psst sound, go to take a drink and nothing comes out. And then find out you are supposed to send the bottle in for a coupon to redeem either at bar or the brewery itself... You can't tell me people wouldn't riot , breweries would burn, management of said places would be missing like Jimmy Hoffa... laws would be made to reassure the rioting public it wouldn't happen again....

And if you ever run across anyone on the street, who says they had anything to do with this games release, feel free to do some curb stomping! Send or post pics of the aftermath I will contribute three times what I paid for this game to help with your legal defense.

STAND UP AND BE HEARD!!!! PICK UP YOUR PHONE, GET IN YOUR CAR... TALK TO YOUR LEGISLATORS... AND SCREW THE PERSON WHO STINKS UP THE PLACE WITH YOU CAN'T DO THIS BECAUSE THE LAW blahblah blahalalaa crap... So LET's GET THEM MADE THEN!!!

Ahhh good ole Democracy... Oh yeah, thats right, he is a Fidel Castro Attorney... what would he know about it anyway.

[Zyxial]

Here is a is video of Sigaar working his way thru his College...


http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/burgerking.html

[Zyxial]

DW Bradley, HP/DC mesmerizing us with their advertisement... and of course the repitive game play


http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/trippymirror.html

[Zyxial]

and listen to the very end of this....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/honda-ad.html


isn't it nice? when things just work?

[Emulated]

if DW Bradley made the Super Mario Brothers game it would probly be like this
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/mariosplat.html ;)