Review at GamerDad

[txa1265]

As I've alluded, I have been reviewing the game, and my review is now posted up at GamerDad, a site for 'Gaming with Children' ...

Check out the review here. (http://www.gamerdad.com/detail.cfm?itemID=2366)

It isn't linked on the front page yet, so you need to use the direct link ... but RPGDot found it and featured it already.

I won't spoil the surprise ;)

Mike

[malvado]

I would like to critize one part of your review :

You say that the game has a very good story, Imho you also point out that the game feels very empty and doesn't have many npc's in it. Don't you feel that's quite a contradiction? I mean, if the game is empty in places then the story as a part should also feel hollow (as it did for me).

Take Tolkiens LOTR, If it was made in the movie as hobbits sitting outside Cardboard boxes because they had to little funding to make proper hobbits and in the big battles they only had 4 orcs forming the orc army how do you feel the story works out when you feel essential parts are lacking?

Essentialy the storyline is nothing special, it's just a very basic bad boy vs good boy with nothing very surprising or any ramification of the storyline dependant upon your choices in the game and as such, In my opinion, completly and utterly rubbish.

[Hacknshoot]

I would like to critize one part of your review :

You say that the game has a very good story, Imho you also point out that the game feels very empty and doesn't have many npc's in it. Don't you feel that's quite a contradiction? I mean, if the game is empty in places then the story as a part should also feel hollow (as it did for me).

Take Tolkiens LOTR, If it was made in the movie as hobbits sitting outside Cardboard boxes because they had to little funding to make proper hobbits and in the big battles they only had 4 orcs forming the orc army how do you feel the story works out when you feel essential parts are lacking?

Essentialy the storyline is nothing special, it's just a very basic bad boy vs good boy with nothing very surprising or any ramification of the storyline dependant upon your choices in the game and as such, In my opinion, completly and utterly rubbish.

While you do need people to make a story, the fact that you are chasing a single person would offset the fact that there aren't that many people. Think of it as everyone's scared of the Blade of Death-wielding powerhouse/caster person. It's empty because there are not that many people willing to help you outside of a quest, mainly some arms dealers and innkeepers. Other than that, the people you meet just advance the story along. So it's empty, yet it has a good story. At least I think so. If you had to chase after one person after another, then it would be different.

[phalzyr]

The story line itself is good the way it was implemented is bad and thus your not drawn into it as well as you should of been thus making it feel hollow at least that is how I feel. The lack of side quests/dungeons makes it even feel more hollow.

[txa1265]

You say that the game has a very good story, Imho you also point out that the game feels very empty and doesn't have many npc's in it. Don't you feel that's quite a contradiction? I mean, if the game is empty in places then the story as a part should also feel hollow (as it did for me).I see them as separate - the story is the 'tree trunk' and the NPC's are branches. You can have a tree without branches, but it won't be able to grow leaves, and will therefore look lifeless. I had a *big* problem with the lack of NPC's, as that is something that I feel distinguishes a 'great' RPG - colorful characters and interesting useless quests totally outside the main scope of the game.
While the game world is vast, it is empty. Outside of the initial town, there are no non-essential NPC's. The largest town has fewer than 10 people in six buildings. There is no ‘color', no life to observe


Essentialy the storyline is nothing special, . Which is exactly as I say:
The story is basic fantasy stuff in which you are ‘the chosen one' who will save the kingdom from the forces of evil, with various plot twists and turns along the way. There is nothing particularly new, or any true plot-branching or choices for the hero.

Only at the very end when summing up do I call the story 'good', as part of noting that even if completely patched up the game would never be 'great', but would be a worthwhile RPG to own.

Make sense?

Mike

[malvado]

And again, it just doen't make sense in some places. take the allied camp outside of Fargrove, the King there says that he is ready to march on Fargrove with his army (what army) but that is a terrible joke initself (in fact I laughed a lot at his one man army). It just ruins part of the story and it just points out how terribly the game needs that extra depth those npc's would add.

So why should the main character care about fargrove? What is his relationship to the town? The game just lacks that background story and does nothing to build it up, why should an elf or an urgoth care at all about an human city?

I've hear that argument about chasing only the main persons in order to make the game simpler and straight to the point, well I would prefer to say that's it is because of engine limitations.

edit : Mike yes it does make sense.

[POQWAD]

So why should the main character care about fargrove? What is his relationship to the town? The game just lacks that background story and does nothing to build it up, why should an elf or an urgoth care at all about an human city?

That's something that I brought up several days ago. Lack of a backstory for the main character. That just doesn't make for any sort of a good RPG, in my opinion. I'd like *some* sort of motivation for my character to get involved in the storyline.

Plus, an oddity right from the start. The character "appears" from nowhere, apparently, at a campfire outside of Fargrove. Other than appearing magically, the ONLY place the main character could have come from is the city itself. Which is locked up tight as a drum.

Not a game-stopper by any means. Just...bizarre...from a RPG standpoint.

[HonorBound]

That's something that I brought up several days ago. Lack of a backstory for the main character. That just doesn't make for any sort of a good RPG, in my opinion. I'd like *some* sort of motivation for my character to get involved in the storyline.

Plus, an oddity right from the start. The character "appears" from nowhere, apparently, at a campfire outside of Fargrove. Other than appearing magically, the ONLY place the main character could have come from is the city itself. Which is locked up tight as a drum.

Not a game-stopper by any means. Just...bizarre...from a RPG standpoint.
(Not to "pick on you", just using your post as an example.)

This type of idea, that there must be some "backstory", "motivations", and explination of everything in a game, seems like "nit-picking" to me.

If I were to tell you the story of my time going through basic training would you (The person listening, not "you" directly. ;) ) need to know that I had a hernia when I was five, or what bus I took to get to the Army Base, or why I decided to join the Army instead of becoming a Cow Insemenator?

Can't a story just start, progress, and end?

Can't a player just give themself a backstory, and motivation?
That is what I do.
That is what I prefer to do.
I do not like games that restrict my idea of the game with heavyhanded ideals, backstories, and motivations.
The more "backstory" a game has, the less replay value it has for me.
If they say; "You grew up a Noble Knight and it is your duty to protect the Kingdom" that restricts me from playing a "peasant striving to earn fame and fortune"...because the backstory will then be driven into the entire game, thus ruining the character's ability to be what I want it to be.

But, I am an oldskool roleplayer.
I have been playing RPGs, both pen-n-paper & computer-based, since 1980.
So, I tend to create a different background for every character I play in any game that allows it, and I like it that way.

I guess that is just me, though.

[POQWAD]

Those are excellent points, HB...ones that I agree with wholeheartedly. I never like a *Lot* of backstory.

But some backstory always seems to help the mood and, for me, "sets" the character...or characters...into the gameworld.

And, again for me, that's the real DL showstopper. I never felt a part of the storyline, character, or world at large. I never "forgot" I was just the guy clicking the mouse.

And by the time I'd slogged my way through half the game, I just didn't care anymore.

[txa1265]

There is some suggestion of a 'backstory', in that seer Augustus supposedly sent to have you summoned based on some visions they were having. That isn't such a bad thing - rather than having some huge backstory like in Restricted Area that is really meaningless, or being stuck as a specific role like in Dungeon Siege or so many others. In a sense, while being seen as having some special connection to events, the rest of your backstory is your own to decide.

That part I don't mind too much. You just have to suspend disbelief a bit further to accept that you were coming towards Fargrove based on a non-specific summons and get details from Simon. And you really weren't meant to go exploring the Simon area - you're meant to go to town. I don't know why they have such a large area there ...

Mike

[freshjuice]

Hey txa

thanks for the cool site. I've bookmarked it. I'm going to be a Dad soon (couple fo months away now) and I see your site as a helpful resource. Bravo! :cool:

[txa1265]

Hey txa

thanks for the cool site. I've bookmarked it. I'm going to be a Dad soon (couple fo months away now) and I see your site as a helpful resource. Bravo! :cool:
Congratulations! I didn't make the site - Andrew Bub, who has been a game journalist for years, including GameSpy, Prima Games, Computer Games Mag, etc. He and some of his pro game writer buddies were becoming parents, and a couple of years ago decided that the mainstream game media was narrowly focused on 20-something single males, and decided to make a new type of place ...

Mike

[POQWAD]

Yeah, Mike. Very nice site.

Glad you shared it with us...and an excellent DL review, BTW.

Keep up the good work!

[Visigoth]

As I've alluded, I have been reviewing the game, and my review is now posted up at GamerDad, a site for 'Gaming with Children' ...

Check out the review here. (http://www.gamerdad.com/detail.cfm?itemID=2366)

It isn't linked on the front page yet, so you need to use the direct link ... but RPGDot found it and featured it already.

I won't spoil the surprise ;)

Mike

Great website! I have four boys (ages 2,5,7,10).

[Priest4hire]

That's a good point regarding the starting area. RPGs have often had rather loose backstories - makes it easier for the player to imagine whatever personality they like - but it's odd when the game starts with an impossibility. There is no way into the starting area but from the city and it's obvious that the PC didn't come from there. So where did he come from and why did he pop up in the middle of a large enclosed area? There seems to be no thought given to how the PC actually fits into the game world at all.

[POQWAD]

It's tough to say, but from an outsiders perspective and, in my case, an outsider...a consumer...who hadn't looked at any of the webhype...who hadn't even heard of DL before I saw it on the shelves for sale (and ONLY ONLY ONLY purchased it because of BRADLEY'S name on the box cover)...

...it seems like they lost focus on what this game was supposed to be. There is certainly very little rpg in this game. "Leveling-up" when monsters respawn endlessly is no challenge...my "fighter" opens chests with as much finesse as my "thief"...etc...

As an action game there's some promise...but to think this game remotely resembles an RPG is, in my opinion, severely "dumbs down" RPG requirements.

At least as the game currently functions.

[txa1265]

It's tough to say, but from an outsiders perspective and, in my case, an outsider...a consumer...who hadn't looked at any of the webhype...who hadn't even heard of DL before I saw it on the shelves for sale (and ONLY ONLY ONLY purchased it because of BRADLEY'S name on the box cover)...
That's funny - I came almost exactly from the opposite direction ... I came late in life to love RPG's (37! in 2003), and have been playing 'catch-up' ever since. I love Gothic II, truly one of my faves, and this game was getting early hype as being a 'if you loved Gothic, you'll love this' title. And everything looked to be really cool about it ...

I hadn't heard of DW Bradley - I was playing Castle Wolfenstein and Karateka on my Apple ][+ rather than Wizardry ... but the opinion of many RPG-ers I respect told me his name meant something, and from readin his interviews, I was even more intrigued with the possibilities.

W'll just have to wait and see ... and hope ...

Mike

[POQWAD]

Crusaders of the Dark Savant was, for its time, an incredible game. Needless to say, the graphics don't hold up today.

The storyline, however, still does.

It was fun. And challenging.

And, in my opinion, a far superior effort than DL will ever be.

[Wipeout65]

Guildwars too can be incredibly buggy, but its developers stream updates / fixes about every two weeks, and so far yet I haven't had a major problem except maybe getting booted when coming to the end of a 2 hour quest, but hey! this I can accept, internet crashes happen! The game was very much polished to begin with but they keep on adding enhancements / new areas to explore etc on a BI-WEEKLY basis! If they can do it, I'm sure HP can too!

[Visigoth]

Crusaders of the Dark Savant was, for its time, an incredible game. Needless to say, the graphics don't hold up today.

The storyline, however, still does.

It was fun. And challenging.

And, in my opinion, a far superior effort than DL will ever be.


Yeah, that was a great game. I really enjoyed Wizardry 8 too... felt alot like PnP.

[txa1265]

Guildwars too can be incredibly buggy
I won't be reviewing it since I played 20 - 30 hours the dropped it and never returned ... and never did any PvP or *real* Multiplayer stuff ...

Mike

[Shock]

I PVP and quest and I haven't run into any bugs so not sure what you're talking about. It's a pretty solid game.

[txa1265]

It's a pretty solid game.
That is my opinion - the game seemed really solid and polished.

Mike