Hills - the last battle by Varus [Archive]

Artas1984

07-31-2005, 06:51 AM

This question could sound kind'a stupid, but do you guys in darkscorner have a license to broaden the map, or is it for free to spread?
And about the map it's self: i guess you have not only the skills to do it, but some sort of tech. machinery, or i would think that anyone could make a map for pk? How do you do the architecture linearing installation? There are lots of monsters in Hills, are they from PK/BOOH? Maby you use the same movement engine, but create new skins for your own monsters? I wanna know about the creation of maps. Especially i wanna know about the engine of Daniel, what are his values and movement modes in a 3D cordinate axis, if 1 hypothetic meter in a map would have a value of 1 unit in a cordinate 3D axis, what functions could that engine do? What is the smalest measuring unit in a 3D world of painkiller? Is Daniel's engine some sort of geometric 3D rectangle? If so, what are it's rows in a 3D axis?

Varus77

07-31-2005, 11:55 AM

This question could sound kind'a stupid, but do you guys in darkscorner have a license to broaden the map, or is it for free to spread?
Sure - they are my friends and the map is made by me alone. Therefore I'm the license :D

...or i would think that anyone could make a map for pk?
Sure - but a SP map is a lot of more work than a MP map

...but create new skins for your own monsters?
No - that isn't possible because there is no import/export modul for to do this.

...monsters in Hills, are they from PK/BOOH?
sure - all.

Especially i wanna know about the engine of Daniel, what are his values and movement modes in a 3D cordinate axis
Yes - he is an imaginary "box". He can "look" over a wall with 191mm, walk over a step of 63.5mm, jump on 127mm, go through a hole of 254mm and so on...you see all is based on 1" < 1inch > 254mm

...what functions could that engine do?
Collisions detection with physical and non-physical objects - means moveable and not moveable

What is the smalest measuring unit in a 3D world of painkiller?
For what? You can make it as small as required.

Ratty

07-31-2005, 02:39 PM

I survived the first "challenge" but now can't find my way out of the pit. I've been climbing up walls till my jumping finger is mangled and blue. Is there a secret way out?

Varus77

07-31-2005, 02:41 PM

There is an easy way out... ;) believe me

Ratty

07-31-2005, 02:51 PM

Well, let's see, I don't want to spoilerize anything, and if the way out is easy I'll kick myself if you just *tell* me. I tried negotiating the giant web but couldn't manage that. I tried climbing up the palm tree but couldn't make it to the top. I looked carefully for "caves" but couldn't find anything. Obviously if it's easy it doesn't involve any more wall surfing as I'm about as high as I can go. Eveything on the floor of the pit is dead and no magical transporters have appeared ...

Varus77

07-31-2005, 02:57 PM

I'll write it in a PM to you.

_Edit_ you got the PM....and: is this an easy way? :)

Oh, and...I don't want to spoilerize anything <<<thx for this. It'd to soon.

Ratty

07-31-2005, 03:08 PM

is this an easy way? Hmm, I won't be able to try it until this evening--I'll tell you tomorrow. It does seem kind of obvious, but we'll see. Your message was very helpful, it doesn't seem easy but now I know where to focus my attention. Thanks for the hint Varus77!

SYS

07-31-2005, 03:29 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Well, I've just finished "Hills", here's my Statistics below. OK, don't laugh on the difficulty-level: it was just for exploring and for experiments. Now "Hills" has been built up in my mind, so I think I know the map. However I ran into that pathetic bug again: my 88/89 "Destroyed Objects" is because a destroyable object was lost, it fell though the ground. Since I always play for 5-Stars for a while, I know this bug very well, and unfortunately it happens relatively often in the game... OK, let's see the Statistics below...

Click here for the Statistics! (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_DayDream.jpg) It's only a link, since it shows my last room, so it may contain spoilers. Click it only if You already finished "Hills" at least once...

OK, let's see how I felt during playing! Without spoilers, of course... ;) To be honest, I felt myself a bit lost at the beginning, but later I got use to the map. It's very well designed really, and very clever also, I think. It clearly shows for me that Varus was working on it for months. Also a big * thumbs up * for Varus' attitude: He shows us both two sides of PK. So fighting and exploring, and you can't run away from exploring, because the level is only finished when..well, guess when... ;) It was very nice Varus! The other thing that Varus really did His best: He challenges the player, and not just with the battles (come on, I was on DayDream :p), but also with finding all the Holy Items. There are some very clever and creative puzzles and solutions in the game, what I liked very much! He also nicely played with the physics. One hint: don't give up at the beginning, but try to solve all the situations, and You'll enjoy the level as You're progressing. When I started it, I found it to be some kind of a chaos! LOL! :D But after this completion, I understand it and I know where to go and find things, and so on. So again, just don't give up, but keep fighting and exploring... Anyway, the map reminded me to TR (my other game) too a bit, since that game also has many puzzles and exploring potentials. My time is below 3 hours, but the full gameplay-time was much more, of course (maybe 12-16 hours)...

Gosh, I just can't say more now, because I don't want to spoil things! I could mention many positive and interesting things from the game though... :) Oh, BTW, the reloading-times: I mentioned it was 10 minutes for me at the beginning, but as I was progressing, the reloading-time started decreasing dramatically, and also, I started to get higher FPS-values. At the end, after I killed all enemies and found everything, I usually got around 80-100 FPS and more, and the reloading time was only about 3 minutes or even lesser...

Now I'm going to restart it in Insomnia... :)

Varus77

07-31-2005, 04:49 PM

Congratulation and Thanks! Very well done. I think we should talk about it (maybe > Yahoo, ICQ, MSN) to give me a real feeling of your pain... :D ...I give a lot of your opinion because of your skill and seriousness.
BTW... I never played TR but - sure - I know it.

It's sounds very good for me to hear your playtime at all - that's a good proportion to my work and therefore is your pain my honor.

And for these fps...i've made a Hills-Benchmark (for the outro) and got 128fps for the score. It shows me that my unusualness zoning worked fine.
_________________

j_diltz

07-31-2005, 05:00 PM

@sys...3min would be ok (normally) - don't try to die around the beginning - later it isn't a problem if you killed some monsters...

3 mins is ok?!? No, no, it's not ok (though I greatly admire Sys for tolerating 10 min load times!!!). While I'm liking the design aspects a lot so far (I got as far as the Dino statue before the flying beasties took me out), the loading aspect is a serious problem. While I don't have the fastest machine out there, it's still pretty good. If I'm taking 2 1/2 mins to even reload a quicksave with my machine, it must be **** for someone with less. I've been catching up on my reading between level loads. If nothing else, something should be done, if possible, to decrease the load times. I've decreased res from 1024 to 800 with only a very minor gain in performance.

The bigger problem is within the level. The level starts running even though it's not fully loaded. When the audio is audible and the action is happening, it's still another 15 to 20 seconds after that before the video is fully loaded. If you're in a vulnerable area after a quicksave, you can be killed before the level has completely loaded. I haven't run fraps yet while playing because it's slow enough already, but the framerate drops to a standstill with explosions. Weapons are very slow to switch. Even Leningrad with EVERTHING turned on wasn't this slow to respond.

In short, I'm impressed with the layout and design I've seen so far, but the performance aspect is a deal breaker for me in terms of being able to enjoy it.

For comparision, my machine:

AMD64 3200+
1 gig DDR400 ram
AIW x800xt

Artas1984

07-31-2005, 05:11 PM

Sure - but a SP map is a lot of more work than a MP map

What are SP, MP?

Yes - he is an imaginary "box". He can "look" over a wall with 191mm, walk over a step of 63.5mm, jump on 127mm, go through a hole of 254mm and so on...you see all is based on 1" < 1inch > 254mm

So, direct me if i am wrong - 191 would be his max viewing hight in a vertical row of 3d axis, 63,5 would be his horizontal walk value, 127 would be his horizontal jump value when jumping from where you are (from a to b, when a + b = 127) to the next point, yes?
And what about his vertical jump from 0 of 3d axis in vertical - up direction?
Next: what about preheated jumping (like the one Cyody has shown in palace megahealth jumping): it is some sort of:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7785/function9rj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

If so, than the higher you prejump in verticals, the greater distance you achieve in jumping forward - down, ya?

How the resolution influences the jumping distance? If 1024/800 = 1,28, than the jump made in 800/600 is 1,28 greater (the distance is longer) than made in 1024/768?
Though we see the resolution in 2d, but we understand that the space of the game is divided in cubes, those are made of 3 rows. If the settings of the cubes are changing, when they become bigger in lower resolution, does the value of the engine's diameter also change? I mean, if you achieve greater jumping distance in lower res, than the engine should not change. Right?

Varus77

07-31-2005, 05:15 PM

j_diltz

07-31-2005, 05:22 PM

That's not my fault. It's caused by the save/loading system. The map alone loads on my PC in 15sec. At the beginning I need 2:45min. And the Benchmark I've made for Hills shows the result above - 128fps. - all on high.

Maybe you have to reboot before...

I did reboot the system after installing. Maybe the next step is a tweak guide :)

I'll try it later at 640 with everything off and see how it goes.

BTW, it was good to visit The Hall of Pam again :D

fleabay

07-31-2005, 05:45 PM

So, direct me if i am wrong...

How the resolution influences the jumping distance? If 1024/800 = 1,28, than the jump made in 800/600 is 1,28 greater (the distance is longer) than made in 1024/768?

Sorry, I am no Stephen Spielberg

That one was for you, j_diltz. :)

SYS

07-31-2005, 05:58 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

J_diltz, it will be better later, as You're progressing and clearing the map. I remember, it was 10 minutes when I started it, but it was about 3 minutes when I finished it. And the similar is true for the FPS-values too. As Varus says, it's not His fault, but this thing is really frustrating, I know too. I think we have to kill most of the enemies first, and then start exploring... :)

Also, I have a poor system...
Celeron-Tualatin processor (PIII-category, but as we know, it's not a PIII, just the same family) at 1350 MHz (tweaked)
Abit Radeon 9550 128 MB videocard at 410/235 (tweaked)
512 MB SDRAM at 135 MHz (tweaked)
And I finished "Hills", and it was playable (it was sluggish at the beginning)... :)

Darkinfinity

07-31-2005, 06:37 PM

Also, I have a poor system...
Celeron-Tualatin processor (PIII-category, but as we know, it's not a PIII, just the same family) at 1350 MHz (tweaked)
Abit Radeon 9550 128 MB videocard at 410/235 (tweaked)
512 MB SDRAM at 135 MHz (tweaked)
And I finished "Hills", and it was playable (it was sluggish at the beginning)... :)

:eek: WoWW! SYS don't you read the minimum system requirements on the cover of PK! ;) I knew you were the first who finished Hills! Or cyody.....:D

fleabay

07-31-2005, 06:45 PM

COOL! Thanks Varus
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5420/shot00145in.jpg

Varus77

07-31-2005, 10:29 PM

@ Fleabay:...smiling...nice that you have found it!

@Artas1984
SP=singleplayer and MP=multiplayer

So, direct me if i am wrong - 191 would be his max viewing hight in a vertical row of 3d axis, 63,5 would be his horizontal walk value, 127 would be his horizontal jump value when jumping from where you are (from a to b, when a + b = 127) to the next point, yes?
These were vertical axis (amerk/engl = y; europe=z) = hight
(seeing over a wall with 190mm, walk up to the "wall" with 63,5, you can jump up to a wall with 127mm)
Jumping in horizontal direction - there are 3 possibilities in correlation to players ground speed (SP 0, 8, 15 and MP 0, 11, 28) and different results for range of jumps.

preheated jumping
This effect is an unintentional consequence of more or less exactly iteration of collisions detection. Every engine, in PK is this the HAVOK-engine, have to calculate the collision between two objects, better two polygones. This arithmetical calculation is based on the 3D-coord and it's always an iteration, not the exact point or moment. If you have large polygones then you will have a more inexactly result. This is like standing on a softly object - you'll sink in this, therefore your point will be lower than it'd be on an egde or corner (nearly the vertics). And that's why you jump higher and - logical - wider. "Preheating" - what I called this technic month ago - based on the same effect and is an incorrect result of iteration - now in the other direction = you "stand" at a higher point. (Not real but for the engine) The other difference comes from the higher ground speed - for the engine you have more than 8...sometimes till 13

How the resolution influences the jumping distance?
Only in one way: More fps means more iterations for this collision calculation and therefore you "stand" higher or you can climb a wall. The faster engine, more fps,more exactly calculation on a faster PC realise then: "Oh, my player is just climbing! Let him go on!" And your lower fps-pc said: "Oh, come on - let "we" him falling down!" :D
The rest is logical. High res on all effects on - that's better for your eyes but maybe not for your ego.
The effect: Dead for beauty! :D

j_diltz

08-01-2005, 02:53 AM

Sorry, I am no Stephen Spielberg

That one was for you, j_diltz. :)

Oh yeah, the reason it had me rolling the first time you did that was because I think exactly the same thing when I see it (need to space those letters out a tad). Great minds think alike :D

to SYS: Argh!!!

Varus77

08-01-2005, 10:55 AM

BTW - the result of the Benchmark test on Hills (1024 all on high, without shadows, AA, AF)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5711/benchmarkhills8lr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ratty

08-01-2005, 01:28 PM

I have no idea how SYS can have finished this when he did and had time to write review. I've been playing for a few hours and I have a LOT more to go. I'm loving this map! It's deliciously difficult. There's so much to do and so much to see, and you can do just about all of it in any order you choose. Lots of interesting nooks and unexpected crannies turn up when you're not even looking for them. Of course, no spoilers so I can't blab about the parts I love the most, except to say it's so wonderful to have a brand new virgin PK experience after all this time. Besides, I still haven't finished it yet.

As far as technical performance goes I have a pretty powerful system so framerates have been fine at 1600x1200 and max clipping distance. The load times can be longer than average, but I'm talking about one minute, maybe a bit more, at its worst. I did have a few pretty nasty crashes when loading a save game toward the beginning. The save wasn't corrupted because I was able to load it fine after restarting my computer. This made me a bit shy of exploring and taking chances for awhile--and I steered away from areas I wasn't "sure" about. But after awhile the problem seems to have gone away and I'm scrambling through all kinds of dangerous and mysterious places.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to cook up this little treat for us Varus77!

Varus77

08-01-2005, 02:42 PM

I have no idea how SYS can have finished this when he did and had time to write review.

True words...but he is a real hardcore player :D and - sure - this is a map made for those players with a good "skill" to have a nice adventure.
I think you'll detect some more "secrets" - some useful and some just for fun... :D
My absolutely respect to everyone which cleared the whole "thing".

SYS

08-01-2005, 03:45 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Ratty, I'm addicted to PK You know, but it still was a hard and long work with suffering... :D Anyway, I uploaded a screenshot about my SaveGames for that first DayDream-completion, so click here (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_DayDream-SaveGames.jpg) to view it. You can see that there's almost one day difference between the first and last normal-savegames. The first was taken right at the beginning and the last is right before finishing the level...

Now I have an Insomnia-Statistics (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Insomnia.jpg) too: 5-Starred this time, however that's not true actually. As You can see, it's 91/89 for the "Destroyed Objects" this time, and I bumped into the 88/89 thingy again. So I actually "cheated" a bit: I used to BoltGun to make a bit more... :) I know it's not fair, but I don't care, if the program also isn't fair with me: if an object fell through the ground... :( But of course, I may be wrong, and maybe I missed one damned object even so. But where?! Yesterday, and also today, I was searching for the last object for hours..but with no luck. Varus, are there really 89 destroyable objects on the map? Isn't one of them placed out of the level? Or maybe I missed one, because it can be destroyed with those..You know... ;) These missing objects always frustrate me... :D I'll see what I'll have after my Nightmare-completion...

Anyway, Insomnia was much tougher, of course. I even messed up things at the hardest point (where the CheckPoint is), and then I had only 6 HPs, LOL! And only a MegaHealth was my last hope, what I managed to reach, fortunately. Varus, I'll show this to You in the PM... :)

Ratty

08-01-2005, 04:41 PM

I think you'll detect some more "secrets" - some useful and some just for funI aim to get to a specific place, say, to the top of that hill, but find myself taking all kinds of bizarre detours on the way and end up someplace completely different. Someday I'll manage to get to the top of that hill ...

I forgot to mention that on my stats screen it said pretty early on the my objective had "Failed." Is that something to be concerned about? Did I do something wrong?

kalme

08-01-2005, 04:50 PM

Just read the level objective. Maybe it should say "not completed" instead of failed, but technically it is correct :P

Artas1984

08-01-2005, 05:51 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

So I actually "cheated" a bit: I used to BoltGun to make a bit more... :) I know it's not fair, but I don't care, if the program also isn't fair with me: if an object fell through the ground... ... :)

What do you mean by using to make more?..
I've noticed that after finishing the Asylum level and maby some more of the origin pk levels, on the layout about the destroyable objects you destroy more than it is possible, like you showed up here on that screen..
How is this? What are those other objects?
And you know, SYS, and others....
I've been thinking...5 stars in nonsence!
I totaly agree about geting all the secrets and artifacts, but ammo - you have to admit that almost in every level of pk there is much more ammo than is needed, since you have painkiller weapon..
Destroyable objects - i give a sshhiitt about them, though i have downloaded k's fixes, but than thought - for what? Why should i care about geting all the fu*king ammo in ruins or destroy all the objects in Factory?
Armor - it is too easy, since ammo is a very requireable thing, it is understandable, that one would collect it anyway, but still - in the end of snowy bridge there are two armors, those are noot needed, well if you play like a looser lol, than yes.
You know, instead of objects, ammo, armor i would vote for money, souls...i just don't know, the 5 stars is too tupid and too easy.
What do you think guys?

Maiden_Canada

08-01-2005, 06:23 PM

SYS

08-01-2005, 06:27 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Artas, just one question: if the "5-Stars Challenge" is "stupid and easy" as You called (without completing it even once) then why don't You play like me, so why don't You always "5-Starring" every levels? I'm really laughing on "5-Starring" the maps, but I'm doing it, You know. And I'm laughing, because it's already "stupid and easy" for me (but this is subjective), and I know what I'm talking about. But if it's not a big deal for You, then why don't You do it just for fun/completeness/etc.? :) Then You could laugh on it, like I'm doing. The "5-Star"-thingy is just a standard for me: I simply can't leave anything on the map. And once I know a map - and that's what "5-Star Challenge" is partly about: learning the map and never having trouble -, I don't really need extra time. You know, I like to leave completely empty places after me... :p Do You understand? :) It's not easy to explain, but I like perfect score. It's a "paranoia", a "mania", a maximalism, and so on. But don't say it's "stupid" or it's not a challenge at all, till You haven't done it yet. Once You have done it, You can judge it. Don't think that it's so easy sometimes to locate and find and memorize all the ammos and destroyable objects (I'm objective here). What's up with "Ruins" and "Tower"? They are piece of cake, if You don't have to collect let's say every ammos. Ah, You surely understand me: it's just not a simple thing, and You can't judge it so simply. Your opinion is right for several maps though, but it's wrong for many others. I know it, since I've done it already. And believe or not, I had more problems with "Hills" than if I wouldn't want a perfect Statistics. And even with one Armour, but I still don't want to spoil anything... :) And if I'm "5-Starring" Varus' level then that's a good test of it, I think... Again, I do respect Your opinion, but I think mine can be more objective, simply because I've done that challenge already, and many times (I can't live without it, I must admit :D), so I can talk about facts, instead of just saying my opinion (what anyone can do). Anyway to anyone else: ignore this paragraph, this is totally OFFTOPIC here, and I won't talk about it anymore here (in this topic, because this is for "Hills" in general), I promise...

About the bug... No, there are no extra objects, You just can trick the counter, if You want. Usually You don't need that, and I also did it just for fun this time. There are some variants of the bug what works with stakes, and a few what works with the BoltGun. If two bolts hitting the same object at the same time, or You shoot bolts into an object what will blow up immediately because another object blew up near that, then it will affect the counter and it will increase the number wrongly. I did it just for fun this time, therefore I mentioned I just tricked the counter... :) It's not a big deal, since I have 88/89, but the game is buggy, and objects use to fall out of the level very often (again: I spent hours with searching the last object)... :( Another thing from "Dead City"... You know that if You blow up a car with the ShotGun, then it doesn't matter. But blow it up with stakes or bolts..and Your counter will increase...

SYS

08-01-2005, 06:28 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

does this map requier Painkiller to be at version 1.64?, Im am currently running at 1.62, but when I installed the map the version number went up to1.64.Just wondering, Im having a few problems with it right now.

I suggest You to install the 1.64 patch before installing "Hills". Just for being sure... :)

Darkinfinity

08-01-2005, 06:48 PM

The map require minimum 1.61, but this is the bug himself! So, you can use 1.62! It's not needed to install 1.64! ;)

Varus77

08-01-2005, 07:00 PM

does this map requier Painkiller to be at version 1.64?, Im am currently running at 1.62, but when I installed the map the version number went up to1.64.Just wondering, Im having a few problems with it right now.

You haven't seen it...?
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6295/patch1619pq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1.62 and 1.64 are only needed fpr MP !

but for this change of number of your version I haven't a clue. Kalme made the installer and checked for the right version before...maybe there was this caused... Kalme could know it.

@ Dark...
1.60 was the buggy version, 1.61 the thing with the corrupted files on some servers, but installing 1.62 wouldn't repair this... ;)

Varus77

08-01-2005, 07:19 PM

@ SYS

I think I know the missing object and I'm sure that it is still on the map... :D
There isn't an object under the map.

SYS

08-01-2005, 07:27 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Gosh Varus, then You managed to trick me!! :D And therefore, one more good point for "Hills". But You know, I won't give up. :p But many thanks for this little hint, at least I know a bit more. I'll keep searching then on Nightmare... :)

Darkinfinity

08-01-2005, 07:33 PM

@ Dark...
1.60 was the buggy version, 1.61 the thing with the corrupted files on some servers, but installing 1.62 wouldn't repair this... ;)

Who in h3ll should somebody know this patch in patch system! But----no----or? 1.6 was black/gold editon. 1.61 was buggy, 1.62 the better (lol better) one, 1.63 and 1.64 for CPL! Ähhh did you say the same? :D

Varus77

08-01-2005, 08:05 PM

LoL @ Dark...no, I didn't.
1.61 > 355Mb , 1.62> 113Mb and 1.64> 6.7Mb
and agian look here: http://dreamcatcherinteractive.com/forums/showpost.php?p=148215&postcount=1
and you will read this:
NOTE: Updates 1.62 and 1.64 are OPTIONAL updates.
Therefore 1.62 never could repair 1.61....

back to topic:

@SYS:
I'll keep searching then on Nightmare... - Amen!

Maiden_Canada

08-01-2005, 08:24 PM

problems went away, cool map so far, (cant get out of that first part)

Varus77

08-01-2005, 09:12 PM

cool map so far, (cant get out of that first part)

hm...if this is the pit...then is far not wide :) (watch PM (or not) for a hint)

...and be sure - the right problems still waiting for you ;)

fleabay

08-01-2005, 11:32 PM

I don't have the readme for 1.62 but here is 1.64 fixes.

================================================== ==================
6. Version 1.64 Updated Information
================================================== ==================

1.64 Multiplayer and Singleplayer improvements and fixes:

MULTIPLAYER:
- FIX: Freezer bug
- FIX: Dead bodies bug
- FIX: Gold Armor bug

SINGLEPLAYER:
- FIX: If a certain path is taken you can't proceed (Docks) is fixed.

DEMO RECORDING:
- FIX: Items now disappear correctly.
- FIX: Demon morph mode is recorded in demos.
- FIX: Sometimes demos were playing with incorrect speed.

NOTE: Version 1.64 can be installed only on PK ver 1.62 or 1.63.

Maiden_Canada

08-02-2005, 12:11 AM

yeah I stopped patching PK at 1.62, just cause it was MP fixes, I dont play MP anymore, the one SP fix mentioned there in 1.64(docks) I never had a problem with anyway.

SYS

08-02-2005, 01:57 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Who in h3ll should somebody know this patch in patch system! But----no----or? 1.6 was black/gold editon. 1.61 was buggy, 1.62 the better (lol better) one, 1.63 and 1.64 for CPL! Ähhh did you say the same? :D

Dark, actually the Gold Edition is 1.62 when You install it (but the BE was 1.60, yes) - patch-maddness, LOL... :)

Darkinfinity

08-02-2005, 02:55 AM

@SYS: yeah it's really funny! :D But in my case, i had never, never really never a problem with 1.0 !! The Problems comes Patch per Patch (in my case)

@maiden_canada: :D I'm not one of this real Heavyweight-Painkiller! I also have to fight hard to clean the cave! The way out was no problem for me, because i know how Varus think! Okay i thought i know how Varus think, the rest of Hills show me from time to time a new side on Varus! The Evil-side!! ;)

kalme

08-02-2005, 04:09 PM

I don't have the readme for 1.62 but here is 1.64 fixes.

[...]

DEMO RECORDING:
- FIX: Items now disappear correctly.
- FIX: Demon morph mode is recorded in demos.
- FIX: Sometimes demos were playing with incorrect speed.

The last part is fake. They didn't change anything regarding the demo recording in 1.64. These three fixes were copy and pasted from the 1.61 readme ;).

Varus77

08-02-2005, 11:33 PM

@SYS:
I'll keep searching then on Nightmare... - Amen!

BTW - SYS....^^^ this was a "hint" for you... :D

SYS

08-03-2005, 01:30 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Varus, I think I know what You meant by that "Amen", but I always destroy that religious object... ;) Anyway, I bumped into the 88/89 again, and I'm going mad: still no luck, maybe I'm blind, but I can't find the last one... :D More in the PM... :)

Ratty

08-03-2005, 02:29 PM

I need some hints. I have 12 holy items. I know where the 13th and 14th is and I know how to get it. I see 15 and 16 but I need help getting them (you can probably guess where they are at!). Have no idea where the last 2 might be, but there is this bull and I don't know how to visit him.

Varus77

08-03-2005, 04:29 PM

@ Ratty
you could PM me...?...maybe with a screenshot .... because its non-linear

Ratty

08-03-2005, 04:49 PM

I never sent a PM before and don't know how to do it (isn't that silly?) But I think I managed to send you something anyway. Let me know if you don't get it. Thanks!

Ratty

08-03-2005, 04:59 PM

I bet maybe I know what SYS forgot but I won't tell. I don't think he could handle it.

SYS

08-03-2005, 05:07 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Ratty, take into consideration that I've finished "Hills" 3 times already (DayDream-Insomnia-Nightmare) and spent already days (I mean if I count all the hours those mean days already) on it. I know the map inside out (OK, almost, since Varus knows it on the highest level, that's sure). Plus I didn't start playing PK yesterday... :p But I always got just 88, and searching the last item for hours (I'm repeating: for hours) each time when I finished the map (so 3 times already) didn't help. I'm almost sure that the 89th item simply doesn't exist (because I don't think that's our well known bug, since it doesn't use to appear 3 times in a row)... I can send You all of my endsaves once You finished "Hills", so You can check out that I cleared the map or not. But I'm thinking about sending them to Varus, to check them out... :)

But all in all, anything is possible, so Ratty, I beg You for just at least a little hint, please (in PM, if You want, because of spoilers)... :D

Ratty

08-03-2005, 05:13 PM

But all in all, anything is possible, so Ratty, I beg You for just at least a little hint, please Well, I suppose I could. Wait a minute! I gave you two hints already!

Varus77

08-03-2005, 05:58 PM

@ sys
we found the failure made by PCF...kalme will say more about it...be patient

Darkinfinity

08-03-2005, 06:01 PM

between....friends do you remember?

www.darkscorner.de (http://www.darkscorner.de) ;) The Oscar goes to Hungary!!

SYS

08-03-2005, 06:10 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

LOL, thanks Dark! :D Actually, Varus' time impresses me so much: I still couldn't finish it under 2:30, during my Nightmare-completion. But I saw that His time was under 2:00 earlier. Even if I go for 5-Stars, I still should try to get close to Him. So just wait Varus..I'll catch You..once... :D

Varus, thanks a lot to both You and Kalme for checking this thing out! * absolutely thumbs up for that * I promise, I'll be patient, but actually I must say a thank You for Your patience and for the checking of this thing. Eh, lame English at me, but I think, You understand... :)

Edit... In the meantime I've just read on Dark's Forum that Cyody also finished "Hills", so maybe He's the second. Congratulations, Cyody!! :) Too bad that I can't see Your Statistics-screenshot now: I'm getting "404"...

Darkinfinity

08-03-2005, 06:32 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Actually, Varus' time impresses me so much: I still couldn't finish it under 2:30, during my Nightmare-completion. But I saw that His time was under 2:00 earlier. ...

eyy :rolleyes: Varus build this map!! :D

SYS

08-03-2005, 06:40 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

And...? :p :D :D I still want to catch Him, LOL! :D

Darkinfinity

08-03-2005, 06:44 PM

:D :D The next FP on darkscorner: SYS - faster then the developer!! :)

PeTjA

08-03-2005, 06:53 PM

And...? :p :D :D I still want to catch Him, LOL! :D
GG SYS, The first, finished the Map!!!
If You have new Hardware, Ur Time will be 1:30 or 1.00!!
Dont forget: Varus PC is 2 or 3x better then Ur´s!

You are Nr.1 Fan of Painkiller to me!;)

Varus77

08-03-2005, 07:10 PM

No, no, noooooo

Kalme's playtime was nearly 1 hour BUT not on a run for 5 stars!...(me too not)
BTW - the speed of the PC don't affect the playtime ... maybe for some seconds by difficult jumps. But therefore you can aim a little bit better on a slowly system (SP)

BTW...on my try, you referred to, I went around and said always to me:
"no, you don't know that this is the best way...take another.." :D LoL

PeTjA

08-03-2005, 08:05 PM

I went around and said always to me:
"no, you don't know that this is the best way...take another.." :D LoL
No Comment.
See You woanders...
1 Comment: Varus, kalmes & my PC = Lightyears from SYS.
Skill´s are a MUST, Hardware = Dust...
:D

kalme

08-03-2005, 08:15 PM

Patch 1.0 => 1.0.1
Thank you for your patience... here's a small patcher application that will upgrade Hills 1.0 to 1.0.1 (click to download, 52 KByte) (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/hills-1.0-to-1.0.1.zip):

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8026/patcher3wd.png (http://imageshack.us)

Pretty self-explanatory I think. You need Microsoft's .NET framework for this. If you're using Windows update regularly, you already have this installed. You can also download it for free here:

.NET framework 1.1 (English) 23698 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3&displaylang=en)

.NET framework 1.1 Service Pack (English) 10453 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38&displaylang=en)

.NET Framework 1.1 (German) 23709 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=de&FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3)

.NET framework 1.1 Service Pack (German) 10453 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=de&FamilyID=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38)

To check your Hills version number, go to control panel => add/remove software, it should read "1.0.1" after this update (still says 1.0 in uninstallation dialog though).

An upgraded full installation package will follow soon.

Have fun!

SYS

08-03-2005, 08:39 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

WOW Kalme, thanks a lot for this fix!! I'll download and will start a new Nightmare-completion then... :)

Varus, I don't agree about that it's easier to aim with lower FPS: that's not true for SP as it wouldn't be true for MP either. And it's just not logical, as Spock would say. I know it: I make very lame things and many bad shots when I'm getting just about 30 FPS or even lesser. And also, I feel it's easier to aim at a higher resolution, what needs a better computer (I play at 800x600 only). Also, jumps and rock-climbings are much more easier at higher FPS-values. I played PK earlier with an even slower system, when I had my Radeon 9000 Pro card, and I even used too high settings that time. Now I'm using lower settings, even with my new Radeon 9550 card, just to get higher FPS-values. And I must say that I feel the differences very much. Many new things became possible. But You know, I still can't make that damned cone-jumps to the infamous balcony-Secret on "City On Water" - that's enough about my skills, LOL... :D So, back to the playtime: maybe the harder situations affect it. I mean, I don't like to reload, so it does matter that how much attempt I need to get a tough Holy Item. When I get lower FPS, I need more, and when I get higher FPS, I need less tryings...

Also, actually I think, there's not much differences between "5-Starring" or just finishing "Hills": because the most of the job is in getting the Holy Items, as we know. The rests can be done in a relatively short time, I think. If Kalme was that fast, then He surely will do it around 1:30 I think, even if He goes for "5-Stars". At least that's what my logic tells me now... :)

Varus77

08-03-2005, 08:51 PM

Yes ...I agree...I played PK on a very slower system than BooH.
It was more a subjective impression for me that the aiming (<< only that....never the jumps) was sometimes a little bit easier. Especially when horders of monsters attacked me. Therefore maybe I needed only one shot - later on the faster system sometimes I passed with my stake the monster because they changed the position faster... :D ...and you know...I'm a older player but the monsters didn't respect this !

kalme

08-04-2005, 11:30 PM

Anyone else thinks this beast is unbeatable in Trauma?? Man, after fourteen frustrating attempts I FINALLY made it to the checkpoint -- then died shortly afterwards... again!

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9632/trauma9im.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is my best score in Trauma so far. I took some unorthodox routes to reach this point and left a lot of enemies behind unkilled. The main problem is that I don't have enough ammo. I already killed a lot of monsters using the painkiller (including those flying ones that throw bottles, which took ages), but yet I ran out of ammo every other minute. But I cleared the complete pyramid and the piranhas *proud*. Man this is hard. I mean really hard, this is http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/2773/text5kg.png. I almost cried when I finished the last tank the first time :D. Most places are rather easy once you know the best way how to clear them. Finding out the right weapon combination and tactics is the hardest thing. And those d*mn loading times... and remember... you have to do the whole level in Trauma every time, because there are no quicksaves... I think I can do the first part blindfolded already :). Getting out of the pit with 100/100 almost every time. Did anyone else try Trauma yet?

SYS

08-05-2005, 01:42 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Congratulations, Kalme (even if that's just a part of Your progression on Trauma)! :) I definitely know what You're talking about, even if I haven't tried Trauma yet: I knew that it wouldn't be easy, so I think, I should do some Nightmare-completions first. I still make many mistakes and I find the first part with the tanks really hard (too much tanks, too strong tanks, etc.)..and yeah, too less ammo and I'm still wasting a lot... :D And that part where You have to jump up, yes..that's horrible, the hardest part for me... Plus the final and most frustrating reason: I don't want to wait and wait and wait for another 10 minutes after each of my mistakes, right at the beginning (or maybe I'll skip the tanks)... :(

But I'm quite sure it's possible or will become possible later (after more and more practicing and experiences: finally You'll laugh on all of those "poor" tanks and You'll eat them for breakfast - You'll see - or not :p). I was also thinking of the potentials on Trauma: somehow You should leave the one and only CheckPoint (yes, there's a one and only CP, and You can halve the level with it! You don't need to complete the whole level again and again - ah, I've just seen You did mention it already) for the very end, because of that frustrating way up to the tower (I know that there are other ways, but I need that Bronze Armor too, for the 5-Stars). It's possible because I think, there are only two really hard fighting-parts till You reach that place. And You must use up the Health Items and MegaHealths too (but You need enough health for jumping up to the tower), and fortunately, the pyramid is an easier place...

And finally, I feel I must share with You what Varus thinks about this. Well: "I think, and you'll see it,Trauma is possible and not so difficult as you're thinking it now." <- said by Varus... ;) And: "wussssssssssssssssch...peng...(and Lucifers Laughter comes in your ear) ;)" <- also said by Varus... Now I think, Varus is the true friend of Alastor: He just likes to torture us, poor human mortals... :D

kalme

08-05-2005, 07:11 AM

the first part with the tanks really hard (too much tanks, too strong tanks, etc.)
I managed to find a route were you can separate them or at least only have to face two at a time. If you get really close and circle around them, they are ridiculously easy. The Russian ones only need few shotgun blasts, the Germans seem a little bit stronger. With a little bit luck (also with the army officiers) I reach the pyramid (outside) with a very good health/armor score now.

somehow You should leave the one and only CheckPoint (yes, there's a one and only CP, and You can halve the level with it! You don't need to complete the whole level again and again - ah, I've just seen You did mention it already) for the very end
Did you also come across the bug that the checkpoint does not work? In my screenshot above I died shortly after the checkpoint (on top of the Tower), but to my surprise there was no checkpoint save I could load :(.

because of that frustrating way up to the tower (I know that there are other ways, but I need that Bronze Armor too, for the 5-Stars).
I can reach the top every time now, but my main problem is to get a sideways movement to stay there without falling back into the hole, lol.

"wussssssssssssssssch...peng...(and Lucifers Laughter comes in your ear) ;)" <- also said by Varus... Now I think, Varus is the true friend of Alastor: He just likes to torture us, poor human mortals... :D
Well put. During the tests I had him on the phone one day as I played through the level. He really enjoyed every single time I died or made a mistake. His laughter almost sounded like Alastor himself, but that also might be line noise :D.

Varus77

08-05-2005, 11:42 AM

:D :D :D for the last one...sure...it was voice over net and therefore digital tweaked with something called "Lucifers Soundware"... ;)

Seriously:
This map respect your improved skills due playing PK and BooH. And therefore it challenge the players in all things. If you run through like a hurrican or like Rocky "Here I'm - I'll rock and blast you to H3ll" - then you'll comes in trouble.
You have to find your personally tactics, a good balance between times of carefully operations, some work as sniper and sometimes with fastest movements and very close. The gameplay challenge your patience too. (I don't mean the loading time at the beginning... :D ...sorry - but not my fault - you know). I mean what Kalme mentioned...to wait for the right point, timing, to attack the tanks. But not only this aspect is important. Your choice of waepons too. You can't run through the map with your favorited waepon. Then you'll run out of ammo. Some ammo is there like a present but mostly you have to fight for. Sure - it's non-linear gameplay - but if you pass some monsters then you'll disclaim the ammo too. And it's the truth that you have to find your best ways for handling all different situations more than in PK and BooH before. As I said before all forms of tactics are needed.
And ways is a good feed - to the top of the castle I know 5 maybe 6 different solutions - sure in parts identical.

Often I've heard players saying (sometimes crying) - 'Oh, it was so easy and Trauma wasn't difficult enough'. I'm sure nobody will say this about Hills. You have 4 levels of difficulty - and this is good so and they're really different besides you can't use tarot cards.
I think that there'll be only a small group of players which'll finish Hills on Trauma and they'll have all my respect. Those players are the best in all aspects of FPS - movement, aiming, tactic, weapon handling, ammo managment. That's what called skill.

SYS

08-05-2005, 08:13 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Well, although Cyody also showed His "before/after"-pictures, I'm going to do this too. So, here You are: the end-Statistics of my 3rd completion, what was on Nightmare, before (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Nightmare-1.jpg) and after (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Nightmare-1-patched.jpg) patching the last savegame. And also: the Statistics of my 4th completion (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Nightmare-2.jpg) (Nightmare too). So the fix works well, and there are 88 destroyable objects, as I said earlier. LOL, my latest completion was under 2 hours... :D

But I still won't start trying Trauma: I still need one more Nightmare-completion, before entering into Varus' "H3ll"... :D Unfortunately, I experienced crashes during my latest completion, so if the program will crash on Trauma, then that's sucks. I'll lower my settings for Trauma, maybe that will help: I'm getting horribly low FPS-values at the beginning... :(

Kalme, You mentioned the one and only CheckPoint. You can reload that: when Daniel dies, just press fire, and the game will reload it... However, once You exit from the game, You won't see the CheckPoint-save in the list of AutoSaves, when You start "Hills" by clicking on the "Play Hills" icon. But..You can still see the CheckPoint-save, if You start PK with its normal icon: look at this picture (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_SaveGames-AutoSaves.jpg). But I think, You can't load it in that case (I haven't tried it). Maybe it's a bug in the scripts...?

LOL, I can imagine that phone-call, BTW! Maybe Varus should record His own evil laughing (name-tip: "Varus Laughter"; meaning: players will be slaughtered by Varus :D) and include it into His next SP-map! :D

Yes, my problem is the same with that jumping up to the tower: Daniel takes the stuff in the "well", but in most cases He just falls back and dies immediately...

kalme

08-05-2005, 08:21 PM

Kalme, You mentioned the one and only CheckPoint. You can reload that: when Daniel dies, just press fire, and the game will reload it... However, once You exit from the game, You won't see the CheckPoint-save in the list of AutoSaves, when You start "Hills" by clicking on the "Play Hills" icon. But..You can still see the CheckPoint-save, if You start PK with its normal icon: look at this picture (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_SaveGames-AutoSaves.jpg). But I think, You can't load it in that case (I haven't tried it). Maybe it's a bug in the scripts...?
Oh! Yes, I restricted the shown saves to Hills savegames in the scripts, but maybe there's a bug in that part that hides checkpoint saves :o. Thanks for this hint!

By the way, you're getting really good at this, nice work!

kalme

08-05-2005, 08:43 PM

Man, must have missed the edit time limit by seconds... the button was still there, but I couldn't send my changes anymore... ok:

It's a bug in the script. Unfortunately the savegame search pattern can't find checkpoint saves. I fixed it but it's up to Varus if we need another patch for this. Thanks again for that hint!

Varus77

08-05-2005, 11:24 PM

Ok...we talked about that checkpoint...it works ... but one time not for Kalme because he was faster than the trigger...lol

Oh...@ SYS...

very, very well done...on Nightmare 5 stars in that time !!!

SYS

08-06-2005, 11:14 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Thanks Guys, for the kind words! :)

And Kalme, You're welcome. However I think, I'll need a next patch, or at least a tip about what lines I should edit to make that CheckPoint visible. I'll need that, after I'll try to start the game on Trauma... I don't want to suck after I reached the CheckPoint with a good Armour/HP, but the game crashes... * eek! * :D

Anyway, I think I won't go for 5-Stars on Trauma for the first completion. If I'll be able to beat it, then that will be enough, LOL...

Also, I've just seen a new video from Cyody: He shows a nice camping-place against the tanks. However I also thought of something useful and radical against the tanks, but I'll have to check it if it really works or not...

Varus77

08-06-2005, 11:27 AM

SYS...you can see the Checkpoint for 1 second if you go slowly because the trigger and this point are on the same place. Kalme missed it one time because of bunnyhopping. You can hear it and you see this "Game saved".
Normally this Checkpoint have the properties like Monsters - timing bounded on a counter. But unfavorable this function alone don't work in PK - the engine ignore it.

SYS

08-06-2005, 11:55 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Varus, I know it and I understood how Kalme missed the CheckPoint once, but not that's our problem here: You can't see the CheckPoint in the list of AutoSaves, if You start the game by clicking on the "Play Hills" icon. That's not a problem for a while, because if Daniel dies in the game, You always can reload the latest CheckPoint by pressing Fire - that's OK. But once You quit (or the program crashes) and restart the game, You won't see the CheckPoint-save in the AutoSaves-list, and that's bad... But if You start the game with its normal icon ("Launch Painkiller!"), then You can see the CheckPoint-save in the list (just like on this picture (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_SaveGames-AutoSaves.jpg)), but in that case You can't load it, I guess... Kalme said that's fixable from the scripts...

kalme

08-06-2005, 01:14 PM

if You start the game with its normal icon ("Launch Painkiller!"), then You can see the CheckPoint-save in the list (just like on this picture (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_SaveGames-AutoSaves.jpg)), but in that case You can't load it, I guess...
That's a tricky thing. You CAN load the savegame and continue to play Hills. But since you're running the normal Painkiller scripts, you won't be able to finish the level (finding all holy items is not recognized as level end trigger). That's a drawback of the Painkiller architecture, but hey... usually we'd assume someone who wants to play Hills uses the Hills shortcut to start PK ;). Oh, check your PMs.

Varus77

08-06-2005, 01:22 PM

@SYS
Yes - I know that all... talked with Kalme about that. But what Kalme said at last (But since you're running the normal Painkiller scripts, you won't be able to finish the level (finding all holy items is not recognized as level end trigger) ) let me change my opinion for only patching the original DL...

Kalme - I think "we", I mean you... :), should make another single patch and upload it.

SYS

08-06-2005, 01:26 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Well: /me takes a bow before that two generous Men and says THANKS so much... :) All my respects for all of Your great effort and support!

kalme

08-06-2005, 04:05 PM

Patch 1.0.1 => 1.0.2
Here's a small patcher application (again) that will upgrade Hills 1.0.1 to 1.0.2 (click to download, 67 KByte) (http://www.darkscorner.de/hills/Hills-Patch-1.0.1-to-1.0.2.zip). It solves the checkpoint savegame bug:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6770/patcher4ph.png (http://imageshack.us)

Again pretty self-explanatory I think. You need Microsoft's .NET framework for this. If you're using Windows update regularly, you already have this installed. You can also download it for free here:

.NET framework 1.1 (English) 23698 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3&displaylang=en)

.NET framework 1.1 Service Pack (English) 10453 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38&displaylang=en)

.NET Framework 1.1 (German) 23709 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=de&FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3)

.NET framework 1.1 Service Pack (German) 10453 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=de&FamilyID=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38)

To check your Hills version number, go to control panel => add/remove software, it should read "1.0.2" after this update (still says 1.0 or 1.0.1 depending on which installation package you used in uninstallation dialog though).

An upgraded full installation package will follow soon (check our main page (http://www.darkscorner.de) for that).

Have fun!

Varus77

08-06-2005, 05:57 PM

Kalme the perfectionist... :) (..of course the upgraded full installation package is online)

SYS

08-06-2005, 10:14 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

The patch works fine, so now "Hills" is perfect: no more patches needed... :) Anyway, Varus was right in all things, in one of His earlier posts! Beating "Hills" on Trauma needs strategy too, instead of fighting like a Rambo. There are plenty of nice camping-spots, and even against the tanks: Cyody showed me one yesterday, but now I also found two more. However, the rest still was very hard, so I need to work out a strategy against them too. My next completion will be on Trauma, so I'm joining to Kalme with the fighting against this beast. Next stop..well, maybe an asylum, I guess (maybe I'll paint the word "Varus" instead of "Namaah" onto the walls with my own blood, LOL)... :D

Varus77

08-07-2005, 03:06 PM

Very good players like you, Kalme, Cyody and some others give me the belief that all is done in the right way - that I've set back Trauma on that level of difficulty for what it was called before.

Therefore I know that there'll be another "patch". I won't spoiler it now but it has something to do with this inside the castle...
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9819/schildold3eo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
;)

SYS

08-08-2005, 11:12 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Er, and what does it mean...? * speculating * Will the game be even harder?! * shocked! * :D Or eaiser...? * hoping * Or it will be just a nice surprise...? :) OK, we'll see it...

In the meantime, Peti also finished "Hills", so He is the 3rd do far, if we don't count the Creators and Testers (Varus and Kalme). Here's Peti's Statistics below... :)

http://www.freeweb.hu/petcsa/hwsw/pk-hills-stat1.jpg

SOULTAKER

08-10-2005, 06:58 PM

Unbelievable! This is just not my week! Problem after problem... :confused:

I downloaded and installed the Hills mod yesterday (latest patched version right?). Tried to play it, got the menu, chose "Hills", chose my difficulty mode but it doesn't load the "Hills" mod, instead it loads the Cemetery level?

Seems to me I'm the “only” person with this problem, seeing as you all got it to work just fine. Could someone please inform me of what I'm doing incorrectly? I feel like an idiot! :o

FYI - I have all the game patches installed (up to 1.64). The only other "mods" I have installed are Kalme's Powermad, levels fix and save game fix.

Thanks in advance... :)

Varus77

08-10-2005, 10:24 PM

:eek: ... clear answer...I guess we have to wait for Kalme... :D ...sorry but I've no clue. :mad: :D :confused:

_EDIT_ I sent him on all channels your "cry"

SOULTAKER

08-10-2005, 10:35 PM

Thanks Varus77 :)

I've PM'd Darkinfinity, and emailed Kalme.

Yeah it's really bizarre, I mean I play mods with other games so I know how to set one up (even manually - without an installer) but for some unknown reason (to me) Hills is making me "wait" before I get to enjoy it... oh well, I'm sure the solution is on its way.

Edit:

Thanks for the "battlecry" :D

SYS

08-11-2005, 12:41 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

First of all, welcome to the Forums, Soultaker! :) Although I can't help You with Your problem, You can count on Varus and Kalme, and I hope, Your problem will be solved soon...

Secondly, about "Hills" on Trauma... Well-well, I've just reached the 1st CheckPoint... I started "Hills" on Trauma yesterday afternoon, and I was surprised on that actually it wasn't as hard as I imagined - that means Varus was right again. But that doesn't mean it wasn't hard as H3ll anyway..however I had to realize again that how true was what Varus said in one of His earlier posts. I mean the tactical playing with patience, instead of being Rambo... Actually, I had to rediscover the whole "Hills" and many of its new potentials again from the Trauma-aspect. I mean that knowing the map and the places of the goodies, Secrets, Holys and Armours wasn't enough - I had to learn one more thing (what I actually haven't learn so far during my previous completions): dealing with the enemies and knowing as much as possible about them! This is very important if anyone wants to finish "Hills" on Trauma once. I realized that there's always a solution, a strategy for each situations, and I was "amazed" (in negative meaning) on how much mistakes I made earlier and even during this completion... This is just incredible, LOL... Now I know a lot about the enemies, and even about their positions and where they appear, and so on. I know their places, such as the places of let's say the ammos, LOL... And I have my strategies for each situations, and I have an almost complete plan too... At least till where I am now: at the 1st CheckPoint. That means that almost everything is cleared now (I left only one Silver Armour, a few destroyable objects, and one Holy Item in the well; but all enemies are killed), except that damned tower... I hope I'll manage to finish it too, but now it's enough for a while, since I was playing in the whole afternoon yesterday and then almost in the whole night. So it's still not an easy thing as it never was... :)

http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Trauma-CheckPoint.jpg

Oh, BTW: don't ask me about the 104 destroyed objects: I have no idea about that at all! :D However, it clearly shows that the infamous bug with the counter and many-many of its variants are still alive... I remember, I blew up a tank with the BoltGun's bolts, maybe that also affected the counter, but I'm not sure...

SOULTAKER

08-11-2005, 04:07 AM

Thanks for the friendly welcome SYS. This forum (both past and present) together with you gracious folk (ready to lend a hand) encouraged me to get registered. :)

So true... "the answer" tag definitely suits Kalme. :cool:

You’re spot on about “getting to know the enemy” and “tactical fighting”. I’m never truly 100% satisfied unless I have a “perfect savegame”, by that I mean without taking a single point of damage. (not even a scratch) Though it’s much harder in PK than in other games... hehe... :rolleyes: :D

kalme

08-11-2005, 04:55 AM

:P

@Soultaker: Uninstall the unrestricted savegames fix. It overwrites two essential files of Hills that cause this problem. The two files I'm talking of are

Painkiller/Data/LScripts/HUD/PainMenu.lua
Painkiller/Data/LScripts/Main/Game.lua

Remove or rename them and start Hills again. Everything should work fine then.

Congratulations @ SYS. I'm also at the checkpoint in Trauma, but I have not cleared as much as you (I'm missing the whole part before the tower - with the holy item on the crumbled wall).

Darkinfinity

08-11-2005, 06:50 AM

1.) Welcome Soultaker! It's nice to see the Hills-community grows, and sorry for no answering of the pm, because i was not on the forums some days! but...

2.) i can't help with "scripting" problems, maybe sometimes Varus can! But for all "big" problems Kalme know all fixes!:D (maybe :D in the future also fleabay).

3.) At this time we know:

requiremenst:

-Painkiller and BooH, patched at minimum to 1.61 or higher!
-Hills in the version of 1.0.2 (download version 1.0.2 (http://www.darkscorner.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=13&id=43&Itemid=125))
-The patches (if you have a older version), and instructions you will find here (http://www.darkscorner.de/forums/viewtopic.php?t=150&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30)!
-If you have installed "unrestricted savegames" then remove it, like Kalme said it the post before!

Now Hills must work fine!

Varus/Kalme is this right? Is it all, or have i forgett something?

SOULTAKER

08-11-2005, 08:13 AM

Look up in the sky... it's a bird, :eek: no it's a plane, :eek: no it's “SuperKalme” to the rescue... :D

Anyone here remember the Kenny Everett Video Show? (British comedian) There was this sketch he did that had me in stitches, it was about a wise prophet on top of a mountain who knew everything about everything. The Guru Maharishi Yogi Kalme... :cool:

Well I did as you said, removed the “Unrestricted SaveGames Fix For PK 1.62”, started up Hills again and BINGO! Everything went according to Darkinfinity's master plan. Thank you so much! ;)

I have to admit it took all my strength and all my willpower to click “quit” after it loaded, but I felt obligated to thank you for “the answer” and responding so very quickly.

Hello Darkinfinity, WOW thanks, everyone’s really very forthcoming with the welcomes... :) no need for an apology ;) I figured everyone was busy “playing Hills”, hehe and I was happy to wait (days, weeks, even months if I had to... well maybe not months) :D that being said, I’m off to inflict some pain of my own... I’ll be sure to post some quality feedback, err that is when I’m dragged away from the PC...

Dark Knight

08-11-2005, 08:37 AM

Varus77

08-11-2005, 11:10 AM

You have this folders and files only if you have installed this unrestricted savegames fix.
Then in the path above.

kalme

08-11-2005, 01:41 PM

OK man, where i can grab these 2 files??
Go to my site and look under "mods". But as seen above, you shouldn't use this mod in conjunction with Hills.

SYS

08-11-2005, 02:35 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

At last... :D I've just finished "Hills" on Trauma, here's the final Statistics...

http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Trauma-1.jpg

The last part took about an hour, but it was tough. It was too hazardous and I reloaded many times: funny, but I had to reload more times here than before the CheckPoint! But it wasn't as painful, since reloading-times were much faster already... I was lucky too I think, but that was just necessary (at least a bit of luck or more)... :)

Fortunately, I made many screenshots during the whole completion, and even about all of my dyings. So here are some interesting/boring numbers below... ;) But they can be helpful too...

-- 12 unsuccessful tryings before reaching the CheckPoint...

-- Best trying before CheckPoint: the 3rd one with 1:28:37 game-time and with 243 monsters killed and 6 Holy Items collected (I was so frustrated when I failed :D)...

-- CheckPoint save-time @ 01:43:06 (game-time); 100/041 HP and Gold Armour; 365 monsters killed; 12 Holy Items collected...

-- 26 unsuccessful tryings before finishing the map, after the CheckPoint...

-- Health and Armor at the end: 133/150 (Silver Armour); all Health Items and MegaHealth were used up, as I remember... :D

-- Weapons at the end...
- ShotGun/Freezer: 045/035
- StakeGun/GrenadeLauncher: 016/001
- RocketLauncher/ChainGun: 001/005
- Driver/Electro: 116/061
- SMG/FlameThrower: 008/031
- BoltGun/Heater: 025/230

I think, that's all... :) And one more thing: Köszönöm, Varus! - Thank You, Varus! - Dankeschön, Varus! :)

Ratty

08-11-2005, 03:42 PM

Some of us want to hear all about fun strategies before we play Hills again!

Varus77

08-11-2005, 05:33 PM

Wonderful SYS...my absolutely respect!

...and with a smiling down to your ammo statistic (thx for this btw) and I know a place that was the Heater for and I'm sure you know it too...
Because we PM'd about this...there are still some things in the map which you'll look for... :D

Hm...I'm still waiting for Kalme to give you this special "patch"... :)

kalme

08-11-2005, 07:02 PM

@SYS: AWESOME! *thumbsup*

Hm...I'm still waiting for Kalme to give you this special "patch"... :)
He? Did I miss something?

Varus77

08-11-2005, 08:36 PM

Yes...check your mail or ICQ

SOULTAKER

08-12-2005, 12:42 AM

Gentlemen, Hills is fantastic. WOW! I love it! Aesthetically it's stunning (I experience genuine vertigo traversing this environment), "gameplay-wise" it’s flawless (full of wonderful surprises and nasty shocks) hehe. :D Nothing short of brilliant, 1st class entertainment! :cool:

It’s obvious a tremendous amount of work went into creating this masterpiece, but it was well worth it, because it is utterly enchanting and supremely professional.

The structure of the map is awesome!

Up to now I've only collected 7/018 Holy items, which kinda' indicates my level of expertise, though I ain’t goin’ for no time trial just for pure enjoyment.

I won't spoil it for the "future Hills fanatics" by giving anything away, but I will say the action is grand, and for PK fans, this is man-made adrenaline.

You know that saying “curiosity killed the cat”, well curiosity will make you feel the pain. LOL! I had only played for 11 minutes before I felt the pain.

Guys, I see many sleepless nights ahead of me, owed entirely to Hills... bloody marvellous! :D

Edit:

SYS... very Very VERY impressive!!! :cool:

Varus77

08-12-2005, 11:07 AM

Oh man...much thanks for these words... :)
What should I say?
All was done for free and with the hope that this level will entertain this community for a while, for some nice painful hours... :D
And it's the real truth that sometimes words can give us much more than you could ever get for money. Your words are a pleasure for my soul - thx. :)

Darkinfinity

08-12-2005, 12:08 PM

One good thing is with Hills!

Oh wondering, nobody wont's to spoil !! The people play it in this way, that Hills was thought from Varus!

Great guys!!

Artas1984

08-12-2005, 08:21 PM

Duh me. I didn't know that there were videos. XP was blocking them and only showing copy of the jpg file in another window.

Downloading now.

I was flipping through channels tonight and saw 'Machu Picchu' on educational TV. Looks like a good choice for a level.

Wow, i've miss that. Does the tv represents Varus's map? It must be an event from the big Wort.
I know something about the Inks, Peru i think, but Machu Pichu - does such region exists?
The storyline is most original, since painkiller's original stroryline also was not deep, so the Machu Pichu is a perfect place for those drats to hide, and of course the secrets - my favorite pk's objectives for those i could flame out.
It is very original since we know that the inks have made original artifacts from gold, and though crosses look really really stupid in Machu Pinchu, but the fact of the hidden golden artifacts represents the map very goog. I could not imagine a better level finishing status than to collect all of the artifacts, though such huge map could have more secret places.
You know, that gnomes and leprechauns gain enchanted power when having gold near them, so i thought of Alastor ~ a giant gargoyle gains strenght from gold - that was also original!
Varus, you know, the fact when some bad dudes gain powers from gold or some magic metal - it is a classical tribute, and your Machu Pichu was kein exception in this case. I remember my teenage cartoon Conan the Barbarian, and if remember good, there were those lizardmen heretics those have searched for stars metal (obvious a mixture of Fe, Ni, Ir) to summon theyr master Seth - the giant cobra.
And i thought the same of Hills - monsters search for golden artifacts to improve Alastors powers, but since Daniel gets all of the artifacts, Alastor remains the same.
Ha, very nice Varus, you are not only a level designer but a whole tradition keeper.

Varus77

08-12-2005, 10:28 PM

Does the tv represents Varus's map?
As basic for the inspiration and in some details, shown in the "outro", yes.
I know something about the Inks, Peru i think, but Machu Pichu - does such region exists?
I guess you underestimate me a little bit? (you know - I'm German and that stands for what? > closeness) ;) :) :D
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9607/machupicchu3dn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
My first step as I determined to make a SP-map was searching 2 days for material about this region (incl. pictures from satellites)...the historical background was for me well known since I've read many stories about Pedro de Pizarro, Francisco Pizarro and the conquest of Peru. But this place, Machu Picchu, was all time for those conquistadors a hidden secret at all.
1911 found the american explorer Hiram A. Bingham the ruins of Machu Picchu 3000m height above sea level. Till today isn't anything cleared about the secrets of this town. It's still an archaeological wonder...
...though such huge map could have more secret places.
I'm sure you'll see it after you got and played BooH...
And i thought the same of Hills - monsters search for golden artifacts to improve Alastors powers, but since Daniel gets all of the artifacts, Alastor remains the same.
Ha, very nice Varus, you are not only a level designer but a whole tradition keeper.
Right...as Darkinfinity wrote the storyline after he've seen the level I was surprised that he thought the same.

BloodBuster

08-13-2005, 07:09 AM

Hills is a MUST for anyone who has enjoyed the Single Player. Rock on Varus!

And congratulations SYS for finishing it on Trauma! I am still struggling with Insomnia....

Greybeard

08-13-2005, 10:16 AM

I've just finished Hills (on Nightmare). What an outstanding example of level design. It felt as much like Far Cry as PainKiller (and that's meant as high praise). I desperately wanted a "prone" key and a lot more Bolt Gun ammo!There are too many highlights to list and, anyway, I'd hate to ruin it for anyone else. And if you haven't downloaded it yet ...... DO IT NOW!

As someone who has been consistently rubbish at jumping throughout PainKiller and BooH, I know I've got no chance at Trauma, so I'll let it rest for now. However, I look forward to the videos from you experts. Especially getting up to "The Tower". I hope that's not a spoiler.

Thanks to Varus, Kalme and all the testers who have turned out such a professional product. When's the next one available ....?

Varus77

08-13-2005, 11:49 AM

Thx for your kind words... :)
AND
Congratulation for finishing on Nightmare !!! - There aren't much player around which have done this...maybe 5 if I'm right.
Especially getting up to "The Tower". I hope that's not a spoiler.
That isn't a spoiler because mostly saw it in the "outro" but thx for beware the secrets of Hills... :)
When's the next one available ....?
... :) because of the huge work (800hours)...but maybe I'll think about it...

kalme

08-13-2005, 04:12 PM

Patch 1.0.2 => 1.0.3
Seems like we (I ;)) included the wrong level end script file in the final version. This patch fixes that and also adds some very special credits ;).

upgrade Hills 1.0.2 to 1.0.3 (click to download, 82 KByte) (http://www.darkscorner.de/hills/Hills-Patch-1.0.2-to-1.0.3.zip).

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8254/patcher3uf.png (http://imageshack.us)

Self-explanatory. Again.
You need Microsoft's .NET framework for this. If you're using Windows update regularly, you already have this installed. You can also download it for free here:

.NET framework 1.1 (English) 23698 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3&displaylang=en)

.NET framework 1.1 Service Pack (English) 10453 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38&displaylang=en)

.NET Framework 1.1 (German) 23709 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=de&FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3)

.NET framework 1.1 Service Pack (German) 10453 KByte (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=de&FamilyID=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38)

To check your Hills version number, go to control panel => add/remove software, it should read "1.0.3" after this update (still tells the version number of the original installation package in the uninstall dialogs though).

An upgraded full installation package will follow soon (check our main page (http://www.darkscorner.de) for that).

Have fun!

Varus77

08-13-2005, 06:12 PM

...and now I know that SYS will do it again on Trauma...

from the checkpoint of course... :D

T'krau

08-14-2005, 12:39 AM

It took a while, but I've finally died in Hills! Twice, so far! And I'm barely out of the pit! This is gonna take a while... * T'krau walks away, muttering, "...d*mn tanks..." *

Varus, you are an artist! Thank you!

SOULTAKER

08-14-2005, 01:16 AM

Okey dokey... there's this one Holy item that's been playing on my mind. It's back near the beginning (Ziggurat). I haven't been able to get to it and I simply cannot figure this thing out. (I can hear the united chuckles in the background) I've tried many different things, pretty confident I’ve completed everything “before” reaching it, but I'm guessing the solution may be a lot more obvious than I suspect? Could someone who has managed to "get inside that place" please PM me with the answer? After a while I gave up and moved on, I took it for granted that I could come back to it at a later time, but upon reflection, maybe you "pain dealers" have made it so that the Holy items would have to be collected, in order to unlock or access another area of the map?

Would you believe me if I told you I’m only on 8/018 Holy items? Yeah I know... DISMAL effort! :o Hehe ;)

You guessed it, some more compliments.... Hills is absolutely MASSIVE and I cannot emphasize enough, just how well it’s been made! It really is a PRO job... so much more than just a mod, it's another expansion pack (and to be quite frank, could have easily been sold retail). Thank you all so much for giving it to the community for free. I do appreciate what you have done for us, and I sincerely hope your ingenuity and inventiveness gets recognised and rewarded as it so truly deserves to be... :)

Varus77

08-14-2005, 11:09 AM

You have to go and to feel like Indianer Jones in his painful adventures... :D in this part

T'krau

08-14-2005, 05:57 PM

Patch 1.0.2 => 1.0.3
I got a 'failed to initialize - 0xc0000135' error message while trying to install the patch...

kalme

08-14-2005, 06:57 PM

Artas1984

08-14-2005, 07:47 PM

You need Microsofts .NET framework for the patch. The error looks like if you don't have it installed? Anyway,you're still using my special package for 1.5, right? The patch of course won't work with this solution. I'll send you an updated version of this special package later this evening.

Though i can not play hills, does the latest win service pack inlude this Microsofts .NET framework?

And Varus, you should have released hills on stores like an addon!
The gift you are giving to all members of pk is too generous, though it is just great, i already thank you for what i will get after 2 - 3 months!

Maiden_Canada

08-14-2005, 08:19 PM

Are there any plans for a Hills 1.03 or above full zip? or am I sh*t out of luck and HAVE to get this .net framework crap?

T'krau

08-14-2005, 08:37 PM

You need Microsofts .NET framework for the patch. The error looks like if you don't have it installed?.
Thought I did...

Anyway,you're still using my special package for 1.5, right? The patch of course won't work with this solution. I'll send you an updated version of this special package later this evening.
Yes, and thank you!

- edit - just showed up...thanks!

Varus77

08-14-2005, 08:42 PM

If you haven't it always through normal automatic updates by Microsoft XP-SP2...

There is always the latest version as full download on the normal link
engl.DL (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Pain/MachuEng.htm)

All patches included the formerly...logical

Varus77

08-14-2005, 08:49 PM

Though i can not play hills, does the latest win service pack inlude this Microsofts .NET framework?
Of course - it did.
And Varus, you should have released hills on stores like an addon!
Thx...for that dream - above all I'm still out of work :( - but...sometimes dreams are much important too.
...i already thank you for what i will get after 2 - 3 months!
joking: I guess you'll change your opinion if you feel the pain! :D

T'krau

08-14-2005, 09:01 PM

If you haven't it always through normal automatic updates by Microsoft XP-SP2...
That's why I thought I had it...

Maiden_Canada

08-14-2005, 09:05 PM

There is always the latest version as full download on the normal link
engl.DL (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Pain/MachuEng.htm)

All patches included the formerly...logical

Oh , I didn't know that, cool , Im spoiled with DSL. :D

kalme

08-14-2005, 09:09 PM

Oh and I just wanted to add that if you ask any developer about .NET, leaving alone those who fanatically hate Microsoft for various reasons of course :), you will always get the answer that this "crap" is the greatest step ahead ever in MS developing history. Some people even adopted the concept and wrote an OS conversion for Linux, so it really can't be that bad ;).

Maiden_Canada

08-14-2005, 11:34 PM

Something weird happened to me, I was bunnyhopping around killing the Tanks then all the sudden the screen went black with the words "yeah feel the pain" has that happened to anyone else?

T'krau

08-15-2005, 01:44 AM

Varus77

08-15-2005, 09:43 AM

Something weird happened to me, I was bunnyhopping around killing the Tanks then all the sudden the screen went black with the words "yeah feel the pain" has that happened to anyone else?
:D :D :D
I'll answer you with Soultaker:
You know that saying “curiosity killed the cat”, well curiosity will make you feel the pain. LOL! I had only played for 11 minutes before I felt the pain.

Hills is not the totally same like levels on PK/BooH before... ;)

Oh..btw...please don't spoiler to much :)

Varus77

08-16-2005, 05:16 PM

Without words ...

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5757/hillshonor016nj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

SYS

08-17-2005, 03:54 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

OMG, Varus! This is too high honour, I don't deserve it, really... * ooops - embarrassed * Thank You so much! :) I'm out of my words about this!

And Cyody! :) I didn't know about that! Congratulations and my respects go to Cyody for finishing "Hills" on Trauma, and even with 5-Stars!! Very well done!

Varus, are there any more new changes in the map? You know, I'll replay it on Trauma, for that. Ah, You said from the CheckPont, but..You know me, that wouldn't be me at all. No..I'll replay the whole "Hills" on Trauma again... :) As soon as I have a bit more free time (my life is a bit confused these days - also, that's the reason of the late reply, and THX for PM too!), because I'll need it... :D But I already have my strategies, so I wonder how much tries and time it will take this time...

Varus77

08-17-2005, 11:56 AM

Honour to whom honour is due.

BTW: You'll see only your name with 1.0.3 until you unzip this in Data/ :
Board (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Schild.zip)

Varus, are there any more new changes in the map?
Not at the moment...besides the things you haven't done... ;)

T'krau

08-17-2005, 01:27 PM

I'm on 2 1/2 hours so far, and I'm still trying to get up the d*mn spiral stairs...on Insomnia (first ever run thru - admittedly, I'm not trying to rush it (wanna see everything...)).

Anyone else been up to the cross?

Varus77

08-17-2005, 03:13 PM

Hmm... :) ... what's don't going up maybe want going down... :D

T'krau

08-18-2005, 02:01 AM

If you're saying what I think you're saying, thanks!

Got a question for you...

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4075/youarehere5fu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I managed to climb up there; wasn't easy, but I made it. Now, did you intend for people to be there, or is it just the way the game's put together? Does that make sense?

Varus77

08-18-2005, 11:19 AM

Ui...nice sightseeing point there. I've heard from professional climbers that to get on a top of a hill is very good for the own soul. But, because I'm older than you, for me was this always a to hard way and therefore it wasn't my intention :D .
But you a free to go and to make what ever you want on this map. ;)

As I can see, 196/158 with 297 killed monsters, - it was good for your soul... :D

(BTW - you have detailed textures on? - is a must)

Varus77

08-19-2005, 10:12 PM

Ok...time to have a little bit fun with some needless but crazy things that you can do on Hills...
Only 3 examples of many others and not really spoilering anything valuables...
(512x384 - 28.2Mb - high) (click the pic)
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/8568/hillsfunfirst2ts.jpg (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Hills/HillsFun.wmv)

or
(320x240 - 6.8Mb - low) (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Hills/HillsFunLow.wmv)

enjoy...

SYS

08-20-2005, 01:06 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Very nice, Varus! Awesome! :) I'm glad I have a new fun/crazy video from You... So..the first trick was whispered by You, so I realized its fun only during my second completion. And now I understand why some didn't work: I simply forgot to shoot the cannons into the tubes... :D The second trick..well, I've never tried it this way, but I reached the stairs and that thingy (*winks*) on it by using a barrel, just like You did. I thought, it could be possible to reach the top too though. The third..LOL, no, I don't know "bunn(j)y-jumping" at all... *shocked* :D That was very cool. And thanks again, for its end too... :) Also, the last trick shows that You know Your own map inside-out...

SOULTAKER

08-20-2005, 03:32 AM

Ahhh Kalme, Kalme, Kalme... it's always such joy and entertainment watching you in action... :D

Thanks! I wasn’t aware of any of it... hehe... :p ;)

Varus77

08-20-2005, 11:21 AM

And now I understand why some didn't work: I simply forgot to shoot the cannons into the tubes... :D
...as I've said...you have to load the cannon before... :)
I thought, it could be possible to reach the top too though.
Yes...one of the 8 ways...
"bunn(j)y-jumping"
It was a very difficult jump for me - maybe to old :D - I needed a dozen trys.

@Soultaker
I absolutely right with Kalme but maybe wrong with the thread? ;) :)

SOULTAKER

08-20-2005, 01:14 PM

OMG!!! What the? :eek: :eek: :eek: I bet you were thinking this guy's lost it fully... :confused:

What can I say, that's what happens when you have too many threads open at once and try to reply while you're getting a b-l-o-w-j-o-b, err... well... at least that's the excuse I'm going to try to give, LOL! :D :D :D

Yes you're absolutely right, wrong person indeed and VERY VERY embarrassing!!! My apologies Varus, I thank "you" for the most wonderful video... I'm so used to thanking Kalme it's like a reflex action.

I'll be playing very differently from now on... now I think everything is suspicious! Even bats! :D

Thank you Varus and once more, sorry for the mix up ;)

j_diltz

08-20-2005, 02:49 PM

Artas1984

08-20-2005, 03:00 PM

Hey, was that monk statue the only left destroyable object that SYS never found? I could guess how hard he tried if so.

Varus77

08-20-2005, 03:43 PM

No, it wasn't. It would by not SYS if he'd missed this!

It was a generally wrong PCF-code that caused this ( the same cause as for the A.Factory failure - a logical problem) and it was corrected with the patch 1.0.1 - therefore now 88 instead of the wrong 89 objects before.

BTW - you can destroy the monk with every weapon on normal way - this cannons are only for fun ;)

SOULTAKER

08-21-2005, 06:32 AM

WHOOHOO! 010/018 Holy Items! Guys I’m stoked, I got two more today, one super hard one too (super hard for me), had to do a “leap of faith” (long jump) and land on this narrow wall that looks out over this sheer drop, “missing it” is reminiscent of Wile.E.Coyote hitting the ground (face first) like a loaded safe! I failed 8 times in a row before I finally landed correctly and got it. :cool:

The other one was really sneakily hidden. Varus you’re a “tricky customer” (compliment). You can't see this one and you don't know the place exists until you try something else. Then when that fails the enemy attack you from this place, so after you eliminate the enemy you think to yourself, hey wait a minute, I never saw that place before, then you go “back” (hint hint) and take a look and voila - Holy item... hehe... I couldn’t be speaking any more cryptically now could I? LOL! :D

You really need to “observe” and “study” your surroundings. If you rush things in haste you’ll miss something that’s really very obvious. I would have walked past this one secret about 20 times (hidden with such genius - right there in front of you, before your very eyes, yet still concealed) BRAVO Varus! (Special thanks to Cyody for the clue) ;)

Varus I particularly enjoy the “logic factor” behind your creations, i.e. “you must do this, in order to do that...” :cool:

Varus77

08-21-2005, 11:02 AM

:) ;)

Oh...btw...you've a nice new avatar. I guess I've seen it before but "can't remember" ... :D ;)

SOULTAKER

08-22-2005, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Varus77
Oh...btw...you've a nice new avatar. I guess I've seen it before but "can't remember" ... :D ;)
:D my sig will be next...

012/018 Holy items (two more since yesterday!) only 6 to go... Hallelujah! :p

All credit goes to Cyody for these two... I tried the “jump from the ledge” (you know where) a few times (not even close) :eek: so I couldn’t contain my curiosity and just had to watch your vids, that “climbing trick” with the primary fire of the Painkiller is terrific! I’ve never seen that done before, ever! On my third attempt I was successful hehe, and then I used it for another Holy item, easy snatch and grab... :cool:

Gotta’ say I had fun with those “chicks on broomsticks” too. It took a while to learn the “corkscrew-lady’s” route but once I did it was just a matter of Electrodriver shurikens... ;) that other one however... my God! “the shooting star” took me forever to deflate, I eventually “zapped” her with the “killer” (Painkiller’s secondary fire) there’s a spot on the steps below the upper waterfall where you see her “turn around” nice and close, and if you position the killer across the canyon correctly, she’ll fly through it, not once, but twice... granted it takes a long time, and you need to be patient, dodge her attacks, then wait for her to fly into the beam of light, but it does work. :)

I’m not giving away too much there am I Varus? You need to be standing on a “certain” step, and you need to shoot at a “certain” hotspot, hehe... ;)

I’ve just reached the checkpoint (with the barrel) and I've seen your video so I’m hoping to enter the tower now. I know I’ve left at least 3 Holy items behind, outside the “city” so to speak. Not sure if I’ll find 3 inside the tower?

Varus77

08-22-2005, 11:00 AM

Gotta’ say I had fun with those “chicks on broomsticks” too. It took a while to learn the “corkscrew-lady’s” ... :D ...my God! “the shooting star” ... :p ...it tooks me some time to "teach" her this skill...

...where you see her “turn around” nice and close..., - this was the tactical position in my mind...
Not sure if I’ll find 3 inside the tower?...hmmm...like me too;)

Greybeard

08-22-2005, 05:29 PM

**** SPOILER ****

I don't know if Varus planned it this way but the easiest way to take out the Witch on the spiral staircase is from the top, not the bottom. Make your way down past the first single, loose step and then past the first major 'gap'. This causes the Witch to start on her merry way. However, unlike the other 'gaps' on the staircase, you can easily jump over it and back up to the Tower. Back into the alcove. Just above the top of the staircase is where the Witch turns. When you hear her coming, let go with the Flamethrower. She flies into and turns in the flame, which finishes her off in one blast. Burn, Witch, Burn!

Darn! Hills is a good map!

SYS

08-22-2005, 05:32 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

I agree, Greybeard, and I usually use the same way. And also, that's true for another witch too, but that one needs another good point, of course... ;)

BTW Varus... That thing on SoulTaker's avatar also exists in TR1, so maybe that's another reason why "Hills" remembered me to TR too: the 1st part in TR1 is happening/playing in an undiscovered ancient Incan land, where we can visit "City Of Vilcabamba" (scientists today are still searching for that ancient Incan city, anyway), and that place contains an artifact, called the "Gold Idol". That's a key there, and actually that's some kind of a "key" also, in Your "Hills"-map... :) Just a little trivia, I thought I should mention it, for curiosity... I love mysteries, connections, and trivias... :D

Varus77

08-22-2005, 06:29 PM

Darn! Hills is a good map! - thx !

I don't know if Varus planned it this way but the easiest way to take out the Witch on the spiral staircase is from the top...
Oh - here you are absolutely right with this "best point" but - btw - I didn't thought about a tactical plan with those witch (to many tactics possible - my aspects were "nice artistic flight" and "the shooting star"-feature)... I reffered above to the "hurrican-witch" near the great waterfall, comining through the canyon...her "slow-point"

@SYS - That thing on SoulTaker's avatar also exists in TR1...sad - I never played TR and I love mysteries, connections, and trivias... me too!!

:( if it'd be not so a horrible work - there should be many other places or locations for maps

SYS

08-22-2005, 07:07 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Indeed, I can imagine how complex is the PainEd. The TR-Community has at least a few thousand TR-levels already (and for a while, they are excellent, but the first ones were "not so excellent", of course), but at the beginning, the first Builders said that TRLE is too hard to handle. And now PainEd..we have only two SP-maps so far, and that says something... And I know, it's not just because this Community is much smaller. The PainEd is a much modern thing and supports much more things and in more complex ways! All my respects are Yours Varus, for building the first PK SP-level ever (and for it is marvellous, not like the 1st TR-level was)! And also, this goes for Jaspos and the hopefully new Builders too, who'll follow Varus in creating Their own small Worlds in Purgatory, and sharing them with us (hopefully, again)... :)

SOULTAKER

08-22-2005, 07:51 PM

Actually I’ve just realised the 3 that I thought were “outside the city” is only just one (protected by teeth) hehe, the other two are in clear sight at the Tower, but I also found another “on” the Tower. So that’s 4 of them, I guess the other two are nearby also... :)

Thanks for the advice Greybeard (in relation to easiest kill point for the spiral staircase witch) I haven’t been able to get inside the Tower as yet (and I keep continuing my savegame - I’m playing Hills on Insomnia) but the next time I fire up a fresh new attempt, I’ll “let her live” until I'm breathing down her neck... hehe... :D

Varus77

08-22-2005, 09:28 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Indeed, I can imagine how complex is the PainEd. ...we have only two SP-maps so far, and that says something...

Oh no - it isn't because of the PE. That was the easy and funny part - one week work. The most work was the building of the map on 3D, texturing and UVW-mapping - 8 weeks at all (ok - for those huge map) and 1 week at the beginning for searching the "background" and some of those original textures.

But at last all is good because I can hear your painful crys... :D ...at least through your "elevator-trip"

cyody

08-23-2005, 06:58 AM

hi varus!

i apologise for my delayed comment about your sp-map "hills" here on dc-forum...sorry, but i'm a very lazy person :o

varus, you did an awesome good job! and "hills" is pretty much the best, a pk-fan can get :) *thumbs up*
the map is very large, there are so many enemys, difficult secrets, a lot of difficult holy-items, well designed buildings and figures, you must have good tactics to survive (some enemies are very aggressive), you must have good skills, etc.,etc.,....!

i only can say to everyone: "download and play hills, because it's the cream of the crop"!

and varus, once again: thousand thanks for your wonderful and awesome sp-map "hills"!!! :)

ui....plumb forgotten :o and the trauma-mode is brutal *lol* but that's the way i like it! ;) :D

SYS

08-27-2005, 09:02 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

And thanks again Varus, and thanks again Cyody - I'm going to write down below why I'm saying that... :D

I finished the fully updated (1.0.3 + Schield) "Hills" on Trauma again, yesterday evening. Well, this time I wasn't that lucky, but see the details first: first of all, the final Statistics (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/Hills_Trauma-2.jpg), and then the usual detailed infos...

-- Only 2(!) short unsuccessful tryings before reaching the CheckPoint...

-- Best trying before CheckPoint: as I mentioned, they were short, because then I fell down at the Gold Armour, at the beginning. It was pathetic: once I reached it at about 9 minutes, and then at about 12 minutes... :D

-- CheckPoint save-time @ 01:41:18 (game-time); 111/098 HP and Bronze Armour; 365 monsters killed; 12 Holy Items collected...

-- 101(!) unsuccessful tryings before finishing the map, after the CheckPoint... Gosh, it was painful: I started to be thinking about releasing "meine rakete" towards Zella-Mehlis... :p

-- Health and Armor at the end: 091/000; all MegaHealths were used up, but I kept a few Health Items...

-- Weapons at the end...
- ShotGun/Freezer: 056/047
- StakeGun/GrenadeLauncher: 017/002
- RocketLauncher/ChainGun: 002/016
- Driver/Electro: 178/061
- SMG/FlameThrower: 008/031 (amazing: exactly the same as last time!)
- BoltGun/Heater: 015/180

So, this time the "first part" was OK, since I already have my solutions and strategies from the previous Trauma-completion (and I even found a few new ones). However, the second part was horrible, really - I didn't expect it to be that tough! But at least I've learnt that the "bouncing-way" (;)) isn't that "hard" as I thought earlier. I had to go back up into the tower at least 3 times, and it worked. I also wanted to finish it under 2 hours, but I wasn't lucky: I noticed the changed end, what needed a bit more time. But I love it, it was a great idea to bring it back! I also checked the "Hall Of Fame" board, inside the tower, and I saw Cyody's name too, after applying the latest texture-update... Thanks for all, Varus! :)

And also t(h)anks goes for Cyody: since His tanks-video had given me useful tips what indeed worked very well! I was surprised: I destroyed almost all of the tanks by almost (because I still wasn't that brave as Cyody was) the same way like Cyody did, and I had to use my "over the hills..."-campspot just against the last two tanks... The whole operation was much faster with Cyody's hints... :)

Varus77

08-28-2005, 09:56 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....
-- 101(!) unsuccessful tryings before finishing the map, after the CheckPoint... Gosh, it was painful: I started to be thinking about releasing "meine rakete" towards Zella-Mehlis... :p
:D :D :D 101 < you're joking a little bit ;)

-- Weapons at the end...
- ShotGun/Freezer: 056/047
- StakeGun/GrenadeLauncher: 017/002
- RocketLauncher/ChainGun: 002/016
- Driver/Electro: 178/061
- SMG/FlameThrower: 008/031 (amazing: exactly the same as last time!)
- BoltGun/Heater: 015/180
Oh - very good waepon balancing in your gameplay!

I also checked the "Hall Of Fame" board, inside the tower, and I saw Cyody's name too, after applying the latest texture-update... Thanks for all, Varus! :)
I think this is the right place for this board and I've to say thanks to you, Cyody, SOULTAKER, T'krau, Greybeard and all the other players giving me here and in many PM's so detailed feedback and nice words. It makes me happy.
And it's an interesting mystery others than for PK/BooH that all beware the secrets, especially those which not PK like.
But after these long time I think, I hope, we'll see some nice movies about it. Till now the most of them were sent by mails from player to player. This is exceptionally, isn't it...

cyody

08-28-2005, 11:49 AM

congratulations for your second run through "hills" on trauma mode! :) *thumbs up*

i made similar experiences in my one and only trauma-mode run, through "hills"!
to reach the checkpoint was not so difficult for me..... i could reach it in my
6 attempt. but the tower was horrible......i stopped counting my tries.......i died so many times....it was a nightmare! :eek:

I started to be thinking about releasing "meine rakete" towards Zella-Mehlis...
*rofl*.....i understand you very well..... :D ;) :D

for me, it was very frustrating ! i mean, i reached the checkpoint with 162/127 health/armor and than i had to hurt me by myself, to get the armor in the pipe (*lol* the 5 stars). :eek:
after many, many tries i could reach the top of the tower....uff....thank god!
the enemys on the tower were no problem.... *imho* they were pure fun.....even on trauma mode.
the horror continued, when i was trying to jump down on these 3 ropes! i knew, mistakes are not allowed....but i became so scared......and i made many, many mistakes :rolleyes:
i think, the main-problem on the tower was my head/mind??? (sorry, i don't know the right word for it!) :o i always had only one thought: "mistakes/errors are not allowed!".....and this thought was like a barrier in my head.....and so my playing on the tower was pretty bad :o so i can say: i have totally underestimated the tower, because on daydream, insomnia and nightmare i had no big problems there!

And also t(h)anks goes for Cyody: since His tanks-video had given me useful tips what indeed worked very well! I was surprised: I destroyed almost all of the tanks by almost (because I still wasn't that brave as Cyody was) the same way like Cyody did, and I had to use my "over the hills..."-campspot just against the last two tanks... The whole operation was much faster with Cyody's hints...
oh, it makes me very happy that i could give you a little hint....my mentor...t(h)anks! :)

cyody

08-28-2005, 12:05 PM

This is exceptionally, isn't it...
....yes, you are right! :)

And it's an interesting mystery others than for PK/BooH that all beware the secrets, especially those which not PK like. But after these long time I think, I hope, we'll see some nice movies about it. Till now the most of them were sent by mails from player to player.

varus, i'm glad to read this! :D

thanx!

SYS

08-28-2005, 04:30 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Varus, did You mean that 101 in binary?! :D Because no, it's in decimal, so yes, it's indeed one hundred and one unsuccessful tryings... I just wasn't lucky with that "damned lift", I think. And the worst idea on Your map is to place that damned Bronze Armour into that horrible well... Argh...! :D :D So, "movies are free" from now? That's great news indeed, and I'll present one when I'll have something interesting to show..but momently I couldn't find out any extraordinary thing. *ooops* :) And naturally I don't want to make a Secret-video (about getting the Secrets and Holys), because I don't want to spoil the "how-to" and the fun for getting them at all. That would just kill the challenge...

Cyody, You never ever needed a "mentor" for PainKiller! ;)

Mr. Q

08-29-2005, 05:21 AM

I played Hills and it's very nice. The map is huge, nice - secret -
passages and wel placed holy items. The buildings are great and especialy the entrance to the tower is wel done. A lots of different enemies makes the battles wel balanced. I just got stuck twice in the game. I'm not sure this is intended but if you block a way out you schould give an alternative i think.

***********spoiler*******************

The room in the pyramid when you enter the hallway and the bolder blocks the entrance there is no way out, or did miss something here.
The same thing for the hole in the wall, if you didn't put the bolder in the hole there'no way back if you jump in.
And on the statue wich fall down and reveal an armor once in the pit youre healt drops slowly and there is no way back.
Are these intende to be or did i miss something.

**********end spoiler***************************

But don't get me wrong the level is extreemly nice and well built and this deserves all the credit it can get.

Varus77

08-29-2005, 10:53 AM

Oh, thx for your words AND these
**********
xxxx
********** :)

SPOILER !!!

For the rest - yes, I know this and it's intended. I thought long time about it but at the end I did it in these way because
- all 3 no-way-out are situation which you'd be able do see the consequence before you feel the pain...
Some explorer lost their life by greed...
You saw 2 !!! Golden Items on an easy place to get !?? ;)
You enter a pyramide, a sanctify place, normally forbidden, and these should be possible without the risk to lose your life? You remember that the builders lost her life when they finished the building? They have to die with their sovereigns.
And if you'd falling down in lava there'd definitely no way out...
So at all - it'd be more "unrealistic" with alternate ways out of those mistakes. :)

And at the end you'd be able to handle those situations on easy way. :D

cyody

08-29-2005, 12:35 PM

Cyody, You never ever needed a "mentor" for PainKiller!
oh....when i wrote this, i thought on our 5*challenge.....there i badly needed one.....and i think, i had an experienced mentor ;) :D

so i will try it with this name: ....my "5*challenge mentor".....thanks! :)

Mr. Q

08-30-2005, 06:42 AM

I just mentioned it because the original has never such a situation but i understand youre point of view and when looking at it youre way i understand the reason for it.

Again good job,

Varus77

08-30-2005, 10:54 AM

Yes - you're right with that.
I had at all two intentions:
1) to improve the gameplay of PK with some new aspects and therefore new "secrets" besides the well known. Disadvantageous the Havok engine assists water physic but PK doesn't.
2) to make the difficult levels more separately than PK before because many players were disappointed with these to easy Trauma mode.

T'krau

08-30-2005, 12:03 PM

You did a great job on both points!

Greybeard

09-02-2005, 12:21 PM

HELP FOR A TRAUMA RUN (**** SPOILERS ****)

I've been pottering through Hills again (on Nightmare) to see if I had any chance at all on Trauma. I was doing pretty well but I've hit one stumbling block and I'm not too proud to ask for help!

My problem is with the Holy Item on top of the platform at the bottom of the rope bridge down from the Tower. On my first run through, I used the stone balls from the tower to give me the extra height to jump onto the bridge. The undulations of the bridge gave me enough height to jump to the ledge. However, this must have been a fluke because I can't do it again (after a lot of trys).

I couldn't find another way to climb the platform walls and I got nowhere trying to use the three support ropes from the top of the Tower. However, I am the worst jumper/balancer on Earth (or should that be in Purgatory?).

I've managed to get a good, consistent strategy for every other Holy Item but unless I can find a better way to get this one, I might as well forget about Trauma.

I'd appreciate any advice from all you good souls out there, whether you've done Trauma or not. I'm obviously missing something.

Thanks, in advance.

Greybeard

P.S. One rejected strategy was to Demon Morph in front of the Hill Fort besides the Viaduct (do you know where I mean?). However, the carnage was too much for the game and it consistently aborted. I have a fairly meaty machine (P4 3.4, 1Gb DDR, 6800 GT). Anyone else tried this?

Artas1984

09-02-2005, 05:10 PM

Hey, though hills are to be called the last battle, i hope it won't be the last battle if you know what i mean:-)

PS: Hey Greybeard, your avatar together with your ancient member subnick are very impressive, but could you keep under your signature that FAQ which you have made, i was just curious to see it, and i thought maby you have that tutorial somewhere here in the forums?
The tutorial is for newones of course, but i would like to view also what other elder have noticed in painkiller:-)

Luigibuddy

09-02-2005, 06:07 PM

I just played this map(it was either this or Jaspo's map which is hosted in GameSpy but I don't have the patience to wait in their long-*** wait lines).
Anyways, the map:
The bad:
- The perfomance was horrible, but I kinda fixed this by setting my clip plane to 50.
- The insane ammount of bunnyhopping required in some areas like in the cave at the beginning.
- Lack of detail, the map is large that's for sure, but you could have added more details.
- When you walked on water it seemed like you were walking on grass sometimes. This would have made sense if you had managed to mix both the grass and water sounds together.
- The waterfall's water texture looked very cheap.
- Long loading time, you are pretty much screwed if you die.

The good:
- Good combat.
- Some nice architecture.

Varus77

09-02-2005, 09:37 PM

Thx Luigi for your criticism … and I see that you compare the map with the standard of PCF? Well – but you remember this was a one-man-show? ;)
Let see:
Hills you can only download over 2 links, darkscorner or my page. Since this month it’s on the DVD of PC_Action too. :)

The perfomance was horrible, but I kinda fixed this by setting my clip plane to 50.
I don’t know your specs but I’ve made a Benchmark for Hills to test the very difficult outdoor zoning.(You’ve seen the test in the “Outro” movie)
Under the same conditions (all on high with 1024) I get these results for
Benchmark C5L1
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4930/benchmarkcow9jo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
and now for the non orthogonal map of Hills
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/752/benchmarkhills7mm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
And you remember the performance problem on Military Base at the top of the tower? And this map is smaller AND orthogonal than Hills. PCF mentioned that the zoning have to has only orthogonal. But I found ways to improve the performance of the zoning besides these restrictions.
If you’ve low performance in combat with many monsters this is caused by slow CPU AND by the game engine. E.g. the weapon model caused 10 fps!

The insane ammount of bunnyhopping required in some areas like in the cave at the beginning.
Don’t know what you’ve done but I hope you’ve used the spider web. Till this point there should be no problems.

Lack of detail, the map is large that's for sure, but you could have added more details.
Yes, that was my thought too. But after 800 hours was it enough… :) ...I'm not a company with 24 people and get money for it. ;)

When you walked on water it seemed like you were walking on grass sometimes. This would have made sense if you had managed to mix both the grass and water sounds together.
Do you know that the acoustic environments of, e.g., water is not a property caused by the object water or any other object? Therefore you have to use non turnable cuboids. You’d have to set many little cubes around each water edges if you have a difficult geometry. And each item and script decrease the loading time…not the map caused this. BTW – These cubes don’t detect the object correlation other than the zoning works.

The waterfall's water texture looked very cheap
That’s right. But the reason for is that PCF allows only ONE water model with one cube map model, with one physical property in ONE level. There are the theoretical possibility for more than one model inside of the Light Environments but it’s disabled by PCF.

Long loading time, you are pretty much screwed if you die
That’s right but caused by the monsters and the many changed scripts for AI. At the end you saw the real loading time of the map (for me 15 sec). This is the result of the horrible save/loading system of Painkiller. In the discussion with Kalme we have had some ideas and with his skill on scripting he was able to decrease the loading time for Hills from 2:45min down to 20 seconds! But he failed at the end because of the pre catching system of PK and the missing access to the source code of PCF.

Luigibuddy

09-02-2005, 10:15 PM

Thx Luigi for your criticism … and I see that you compare the map with the standard of PCF? Well – but you remember this was a one-man-show? ;)
Let see:
Hills you can only download over 2 links, darkscorner or my page. Since this month it’s on the DVD of PC_Action too. :)

I don’t know your specs but I’ve made a Benchmark for Hills to test the very difficult outdoor zoning.(You’ve seen the test in the “Outro” movie)
Under the same conditions (all on high with 1024) I get these results for
Benchmark C5L1
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4930/benchmarkcow9jo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
and now for the non orthogonal map of Hills
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/752/benchmarkhills7mm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
And you remember the performance problem on Military Base at the top of the tower? And this map is smaller AND orthogonal than Hills. PCF mentioned that the zoning have to has only orthogonal. But I found ways to improve the performance of the zoning besides these restrictions.
If you’ve low performance in combat with many monsters this is caused by slow CPU AND by the game engine. E.g. the weapon model caused 10 fps!

Don’t know what you’ve done but I hope you’ve used the spider web. Till this point there should be no problems.

Yes, that was my thought too. But after 800 hours was it enough… :) ...I'm not a company with 24 people and get money for it. ;)

Do you know that the acoustic environments of, e.g., water is not a property caused by the object water or any other object? Therefore you have to use non turnable cuboids. You’d have to set many little cubes around each water edges if you have a difficult geometry. And each item and script decrease the loading time…not the map caused this. BTW – These cubes don’t detect the object correlation other than the zoning works.

That’s right. But the reason for is that PCF allows only ONE water model with one cube map model, with one physical property in ONE level. There are the theoretical possibility for more than one model inside of the Light Environments but it’s disabled by PCF.

That’s right but caused by the monsters and the many changed scripts for AI. At the end you saw the real loading time of the map (for me 15 sec). This is the result of the horrible save/loading system of Painkiller. In the discussion with Kalme we have had some ideas and with his skill on scripting he was able to decrease the loading time for Hills from 2:45min down to 20 seconds! But he failed at the end because of the pre catching system of PK and the missing access to the source code of PCF.

and I see that you compare the map with the standard of PCF? Well – but you remember this was a one-man-show? ;)
I've played non-official maps for other games(Doom 3 for example) which are better than the ones made by the company.

I don’t know your specs
Pentium 4 2.8GHz. ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. 1GB of ram.

And you remember the performance problem on Military Base at the top of the tower?
I never had any perfomance problems with Painkiller. If I am not mistaken the part which you are talking about didn't make the game slower.

Don’t know what you’ve done but I hope you’ve used the spider web. Till this point there should be no problems.
Yes I did, but before that you had to use bunnhyhopping for a while to reach it.

Yes, that was my thought too. But after 800 hours was it enough… :) ...I'm not a company with 24 people and get money for it. ;)
It's better to spend a few more hours working on details than having 800 hours down the drain.

SYS

09-05-2005, 09:21 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

And I have to announce another Player who has finished "Hills": Rémlátó (a Hungarian PK-Friend with an odd Hungarian nickname, LOL!) finished it a few days ago on Nightmare (http://kepfeltoltes.hu/050901/Painkiller_hills_nightmare_end.jpg). As You can see, it's 5-Starred, and it's an amazing time, considering that it was His FIRST(!) completion! Congratulations! He also started it on Trauma, so maybe He'll be the 3rd..or Peti..or Kalme...? :) Come on, Guys!

About the long loading-times on "Hills"... Hmm, I suspect the enemies, since there are various kinds of enemies on "Hills". I noticed that the loading-time increases dramatically as the number of the enemies reduces. In a normal PK-map, there are maximum about 5 kinds of enemies (for example on "Forest": Bones, Vamps, Witches, those big guys at the end, and the spirits), whilst "Hills" has much more kinds of them. Maybe it takes too long to unpack all these enemy-datas (models, sounds, etc.) into the memory. But the program is "clever" enough: later it reloads just those kinds what haven't been killed yet... Maybe this theory is part of the truth...

I'm still saying that "Hills" is awesome, and that 800+ hours surely were too much work for it. Surely, Luigi has some good points here and there, but actually, they really don't matter for me (except the performance, yes, that matters): the level is so challenging, it has nice puzzles and tough/strategical fights, so it's hard to beat, and that's what satisfied me really. I don't care about "crappy waterfalls" and such like things, as they are so small things/"issues"..I expected a really hard level for experts, and I got it. And I sucked with it (what made Varus to be so happy, LOL), but I also had a great time, and I still have. What else? Well, maybe the level could've been even better with Luigi's constructive points, but I love this version too, I've just written down why... And all my true respects go for those who'll ever finish "Hills" (how many Players finished it so far? still under 10 as we know?) - they will know why... :) Oh, and don't think that I'm always that diplomatic..no, I just try to understand EveryOne (even if that's almost impossible) with their opinions and motivations, and that is all... :p

Mr. Q

09-05-2005, 09:25 AM

I finisched it to but on insomania and not with the five stars.

SYS

09-05-2005, 09:31 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Congratulations, Mr. Q! Since almost all of the Holy Items are hard to reach (and that's what the game is about), it's still very impressive!! :)

Varus77

09-05-2005, 10:20 AM

HEUREKA (left corner below)

http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Hills/Hills_PC-Action0001a.jpg

:D

cyody

09-05-2005, 10:46 AM

congratulation, varus!

you really deserve this! :)

BloodBuster

09-05-2005, 02:56 PM

Congratulations. It is well deserved. I still have not got very far with Hills - it is VERY hard.

Anyone who has enjoyed PK should play Hills - it is tough, but as you progress through the level you feel you really do 'progress'. You have to work hard for every inch of ground that you take. Feel the Pain, man, Feel the Pain!

SYS

09-05-2005, 04:14 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

This is excellent Varus, congratulations! And yes, You deserved it, after working for months on this great level. On the first custom-made SP-level for PK ever! If You have more screens, please hit us with them! ;)

Varus77

09-05-2005, 04:42 PM

Yup > at Darkscorner you'll see the article about it...(but in German) ;) :)

SYS

09-05-2005, 05:03 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Yeah, I've just seen it. Very nice, and I laughed on the "Hard, harder, hardest"-remark... :D ;) I had been learning German for about 4 or 5 years in the past, so things are familiar, however I've forgotten a lot. But more or less, and with a help of a translator, I think (hope, LOL), I'll understand the article... :)

Congrats', once more!

T'krau

09-05-2005, 05:23 PM

I've managed to stagger to the finish, finally, on Nightmare (sorry, no screen...didn't think of it until it was too late...:o). Had a few bullets left, LOTS of scars/burns, and 8 holys in my hand at the end.

How the H*LL are supposed to get on the d*mn WALL?!?

Varus77

09-05-2005, 05:43 PM

Congratulation to you...
...and Cyody have made some nice vids about this quest(ion). I said him that he should post it on Darkscorner...maybe I'll do it for him... :)
(at the moment the link-code don't work right there...I'll send you a PM after uploading)

Darkinfinity

09-05-2005, 07:21 PM

Man of hounor!! :) Congrats Varus! Maybe PC-Action is only the first, not the last! ;)

Varus77

09-05-2005, 08:15 PM

How the H*LL are supposed to get on the d*mn WALL?!?

Woops...didn't saw it...
You mean the great wall? You remember the ammo for the Boltgun? This is your jump point if one bunnyhopp before....direction: 45° right...to the lower level of the wall...landing on the edge then ok...jumping wider - landing on the middle then with little damage

SYS

09-06-2005, 09:14 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

I've managed to stagger to the finish, finally, on Nightmare (sorry, no screen...didn't think of it until it was too late...:o). Had a few bullets left, LOTS of scars/burns, and 8 holys in my hand at the end.

How the H*LL are supposed to get on the d*mn WALL?!?

Congratulations T'krau, very well done! :)

T'krau

09-06-2005, 12:05 PM

Thanks, guys. It wasn't pretty...

Next stop - Nightmare! With screens! :eek:

cyody

09-07-2005, 07:09 PM

I've managed to stagger to the finish, finally, on Nightmare (sorry, no screen...didn't think of it until it was too late...). Had a few bullets left, LOTS of scars/burns, and 8 holys in my hand at the end.
my congratulions, t'krau! :) *thumbs up*

it also happend to me sometimes, that i did forget to make a screenshot of the statistics....that's very annoying! :rolleyes:

cyody

09-07-2005, 07:25 PM

today i published some of my "hills" - videos on darkscorner, and now i will share them here too!

clearing the tower on trauma mode (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/hills_tower.wmv) the video is not perfect, but it shows an easy
option to clear the tower from enemies.
the lava statue (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/statue.wmv) shows 3 variants
the beast (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/beast.wmv) shows 5 variants
the beast head (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/beast_head.wmv)

to be continued! :)

my pc is defect :( and for this reason, i had to play and record the vids on my laptop! therefore....please don't expect high quality videos!

and thousand thanks to varus, for hosting my vids!!! :)

have fun & cu!

Cynical

09-11-2005, 12:40 AM

I haven't finished this thing yet; I've got seven or eight of the holies, around 220 - 230 kills, and honesty don't feel compelled to finish it. Thoughts follow.

Varsus, don't take this the wrong way, but it seems obvious that you weren't ready for a project of this scope. There are some cool ideas here- the beginning of the map (up the pit, battles at the top of the pit, and up to the waterfall you had to walk inside of) were pretty cool from a gameplay perspective- it seemed like there was a heavy influence from the Doom wad Alien Vendetta map 26, although I don't know if you've ever even played that. From here, though, it seemed to go downhill quickly. The scale was pretty bad; lots of stupidly narrow hallways, and lots of really long, boring treks (i.e. the ammo at the bottom of the fish-waterfall). Very oftenly, enemies were stuck behind doorways they couldn't fit out of, leaving them ridiculously easy for me to pick off. Likewise, there were lots of close-range attackers that I was able to pick off from half-way across the map. I also think that you didn't consider a few posibilities with the wooden trough, since I was able to get to it from the wrong end first, and get stuck in the holy room, since I hadn't rolled the boulder down yet. Also, the fact that you let the player walk out of the map boundaries and take damage with no clear border of where this would happen was a bad thing. Finally, aesthetically, this was atrocious. Textures were applied haphazardly, many of them distorted to all **** (particularly on cliff walls). Lighting was downright fugly.

That said, you do show potential as a mapper; but, really, you shouldn't be trying to create a map this big yet (and, given the limitations of the engine, I'm not sure it's a good idea at all). The lizzard set up was particularly cool, and fighting up the stairs from the river seemed like it was ripped straight from the book of Doom (this is a GOOD thing). Honestly, I'd like to see you set your sights on a less ambitious project that's better realized- something along the size of Ultimate Doom's E4M6, or perhaps the retail game's Castle. If you put just a tiny fraction of the time into a project of that magnitude that you did into this, you'd really have something killer on your hands.

T'krau

09-11-2005, 02:53 AM

Also, the fact that you let the player walk out of the map boundaries and take damage with no clear border of where this would happen was a bad thing.
It took me about five minutes to see the borderline - it's kinda subtle, but it is a noticable 'edge.'

cyody

09-11-2005, 07:24 AM

i agree with t'krau! i also had no problem to find/see the borderline!

I also think that you didn't consider a few posibilities with the wooden trough, since I was able to get to it from the wrong end first, and get stuck in the holy room, since I hadn't rolled the boulder down yet.

you get stuck, because you didn't try everything! you don't need the stone-ball,
to leave the holy-room!

watch this: no! you don't need the stone ball.... (http://www.sbg.at/cyody60/stone_ball.wmv)

Cynical

09-11-2005, 12:22 PM

Cyody- only problem with that, with the way I got there, I'm pretty sure I hadn't set off the beast spawn triggers yet (I spent a few minutes in there, and none ever came). I hadn't even been to that "bank" of the river at all yet; I jumped to the great wall from a peak on the other side, grabbed the holy on the wall, and jumped down onto the trough.

About the borderline- it shouldn't take 5 minutes of staring at. It should be more or less impossible to cross- would a simple blocking volume be too much to ask?

Varus77

09-11-2005, 01:42 PM

@Cynical
At first I don't know what you told about Doom - I've played Doom only one time through and I didn't like it very much.

The thing with the hole in this wall. It was my itention that every player will jump in like a pitfall. Therefore they see 2 !!! Golden Items there. 2 Items to get on an easy way? And yes - :D - as I know everybody did it...
It was the itention too that everbody can walk any way he want like a non linear gameplay. We have different players. Some like to play very careful, on tactical ways, others like more run and rush. That's why there are no limits, no forbitten ways, no doors, no invisible walls. Yes, it'd be much easier to set at the border invisible walls. LoL. To get those "effect" Kalme wrote a new script to make this gag possible. It isn't a feature that you could find in the whole game, you know? But you can see the "border", you know this...
I'm not a great fan of those linear gameplay like come in - doors close - monster comes - door open....only one way the get the end of a level. That's often boring system. It's much better - imo - if the player can find his personally best ways for his skill, for his tactics.
Very oftenly, enemies were stuck behind doorways they couldn't fit out of, leaving them ridiculously easy for me to pick off.
Yes - you will find all systems of AI...some monsters haven't the possibilty to leave their places (they use camping methods :) ) and the are easy to kill. You can sniper many of them - yes - how you like it (and your ammo balancing allows it ;) ) Some other monsters follow very long scripted way points (eg. the tanks) But don't forget you have to get all items - you haven't to kill all monsters. It's not necessary to get the ammo near the waterfall. And if you won't walk through the long canyon - you haven't to do so...but you can. It's always your choice.

I guess because you have only the half of all items that you will find some more problems like the thing with the hole in the wall... ;)

I jumped to the great wall from a peak on the other side, grabbed the holy on the wall, and jumped down onto the trough. < Yes ! any way is possible...that are your ways. Do what ever you want...

T'krau

09-11-2005, 02:48 PM

About the borderline- it shouldn't take 5 minutes of staring at. It should be more or less impossible to cross- would a simple blocking volume be too much to ask?
Maybe I should have said that the third time I 'crossed the border' and took damage (2 whole points...), I noticed the line. I didn't have to stand there and stare at the landscape, searching for it.

Finally, aesthetically, this was atrocious. Textures were applied haphazardly, many of them distorted to all **** (particularly on cliff walls). Lighting was downright fugly.
Just curious - what's your system spec, what's your game resolution, and what in-game video settings are you using?

Frankly, for a one-man (OK, two-man...kalme helped), made-on-the-kitchen-table-in-your-spare-time level, I think it's amazingly good. I wasn't expecting to see pro-level details (nothing personal, Varus), but I doubt that Varus had the same budget/staff/other stuff to work with that PCF (or Valve or id or any of the other big-name developers) have access to. I'd LOVE to see what he could do with those resources!

Cynical

09-11-2005, 04:00 PM

Just curious - what's your system spec, what's your game resolution, and what in-game video settings are you using?
P4 660 (800 FSB, 2mb L2 cache) 3.6 ghz, GeForce 6800 Ultra (256 mb, PCI-E), 2 gigs DDR2 ram, Intel 925XE Alderwood chipset. All settings maxed, all special effects turned on, 1152x864 resolution.

Frankly, for a one-man (OK, two-man...kalme helped), made-on-the-kitchen-table-in-your-spare-time level, I think it's amazingly good. I wasn't expecting to see pro-level details (nothing personal, Varus), but I doubt that Varus had the same budget/staff/other stuff to work with that PCF (or Valve or id or any of the other big-name developers) have access to. I'd LOVE to see what he could do with those resources!
I'd disagree with the "amazingly good" part; I've seen add-on levels done by a single person far better than the stock levels in every way for MOST games. Take Unreal for example- currently, a level that's about as good as most of the stock maps would be rated below average. For Doom III, it took about a month untill a one-man "made in your spare time" level was better than any that shipped with the game, and at this point, there have been many. It may have been less ambitious, but there's no denying that from a technical and aesthetic standpoint that Tree of Woe was far more advanced than Hills- and again, that was the work of one person, in his spare time.

Ratty

09-11-2005, 04:15 PM

SYS

09-11-2005, 05:17 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Very nice stuff Cyody, and I'm glad to see that they are hosted and shared! :) Because they surely may be helpful for Others: remember, what You want to show, that counts... * thumbs up *

Ratty, You should watch Cyody's "'Hills' - the tanks" (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/cyody/tanks.wmv) video... ;) And no, You can't really mess up things: every Holy Item can be collected, even if You blow up everything... So that Insomnia-game is indeed finishable...

Varus77

09-11-2005, 05:22 PM

@Cynical
About this textures...you refers to the ground...that's right. I know this - logical - but there was for me no reason to do more, eg. canyon. Certainly I'd be able to do this in high resolution and well done aspect but it wasn't my itention. My aspect was the gameplay, the secrets, the tactics, the AI. The ground is what it is - the ground. Don't forget that based on the large dimensions of the terrain the file size for the texture part would huge increase in an outdoor level. That's the reason for you'll find in Doom only some very small outdoor parts. Have you ever watched at the ground of levels in large maps? Military Base is one large map a little comparable to Hills. But there you have always concrete. And if you make a terrain with high vertical values too then the problem increase much more too. It's possible to make it in a good look - that's not the problem. But under the aspect playable for gamers with low GPU memory it'd be not so good. Therefore it was a compromise: "Always so good as you need - never so good as you can!"
And believe me: under the aspect of the performance it is much more difficult to make a outdoor map than an indoor - at last because of the zoning. And to get by a Benchmark for Hills a score of 126 is much better than the 84 on CoW under the same conditions.
You get in the details mostly the originale textures from Machu Picchu and the ground is from a satelite picture...(the geometry too...)

This map is not made at first for a sightseeing tour - it's made to challenge the players skill to get all secrets and items. And as we could see...only 2 players did it on Trauma. Maybe this all are the reasons why PC_Action did it on their DVD. ;)

Cynical

09-11-2005, 06:36 PM

I'm not referring to simply the resolution of the textures, though- I'm referring to the UV mapping of them to the polys. For instance, take this image (screenshot taken by T'Krau

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5894/whatform5fh.jpg

In the upper-left corner on the cliff wall, we see a horrible horizontal stretching. The texture should have been mapped to fit the polys better- even if you couldn't change the resolution. There are lots of examples of this throughout the map.

The gameplay does little to redeem it at this point; there are cool areas, but also too many really poor ones (like the castle at the top of the waterfall hill - stupidly underscaled, also a lot of the stairs you can't walk up fluidly which destroys flow, lots of gameplay issues caused by monsters popping in and out thanks to zoning issues, enemy placement that makes far too many monsters nearly helpless... the list goes on and on). Making it to a magazine disc doesn't mean ****; I've seen some good maps on game magazine discs, but I've seen far more utterly terrible ones.

Varus77

09-11-2005, 08:53 PM

LoL...What's wrong with you? :D If you don't like it - don't play it.
And you aren't right. This comes at first from the textures and not from the lightning. Lightning is based on a grayscale and do not strech anything. This comes from the ground textures. The hole cave use only one original texture and twice repeated. Those texture is well corrected and placed by individual modified UV-mapping and has exactly the view I wanted. It's my personally view because I had those looks:
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1572/tow012bm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^^ sure - this is also a compromise he did (Jaspos) - and he know this too. It's the individual view what we find good and where we do it in another way. I think we have to respect this.
If you have any knowledge about UV-mapping then would you have seen that I know what about we talk:
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/7601/hills95a7wa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/805/hills95d4vl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

also a lot of the stairs you can't walk up fluidly which destroys flow
Yes! Individual different by using of a mathematical random generator. This was my itention to break it because it's not a MP-map. And in the area of Machu Picchu you will never find steps with the same value. It's not a ladder, it's natur.
lots of gameplay issues caused by monsters popping in and out thanks to zoning issues
? do you really know what about you're talking here? Do you know anything about zoning? Jaspos knew his problems with that and talked about it. But at all I'd never mentioned it about his problems with that because it's very difficult caused by the engine of PK. And he made an indoor-map - therefore it's much easier do to. And so far I never heard about those monster pop in and out. But maybe it's possible on a critical point but surely not as an gameplay issues.
But at all it's needless to talk about those things because nobody says that you have to like the map. Do what ever you want.
For me it's good enough that the most players like it. All would never possible.

Cynical

09-11-2005, 10:07 PM

LoL...What's wrong with you? :D If you don't like it - don't play it.
And you aren't right. This comes at first from the textures and not from the lightning. Lightning is based on a grayscale and do not strech anything.
Errm... where did I say that the cliff problem was based on lighting? I said it was based on UV mapping (in case you don't know, UV refers to the texture coordinates, not to light - http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/uvmapping/uv_mapping/advanced_uv_mapping.html )

Also, you'll note that I said that I didn't feel compelled to finish it. Thus, I was already taking your advice.

This comes from the ground textures. The hole cave use only one original texture and twice repeated. Those texture is well corrected and placed by individual modified UV-mapping and has exactly the view I wanted. It's my personally view because I had those looks: (image removed for readability)
^^ sure - this is also a compromise he did (Jaspos) - and he know this too. It's the individual view what we find good and where we do it in another way. I think we have to respect this.
It's one thing to not want repetition of a terrain texture (which is perfectly fine if it's on a ground surface you're walking on, since your view isn't as good as it would be on a cliff wall). However, you should have kept the stretch of the texture more or less consistent over your polys. There are many far worse examples than the one pictured, BTW.
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/3494/shot00038iz.jpg
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/6007/shot00053nd.jpg

As for your two other shots- the first one is overly streched across the celing (it would have probably looked better to make a new texture for the celing), and the texture break on the ramp is sorta strange; it would have probably been better to orient the texture on that polygon so the lines matched the main room. The other seems fine, from what I can see.

also a lot of the stairs you can't walk up fluidly which destroys flow
Yes! Individual different by using of a mathematical random generator. This was my itention to break it because it's not a MP-map. And in the area of Machu Picchu you will never find steps with the same value. It's not a ladder, it's natur.
The stairs don't all need to be the exact same height, but they do need to act as "steps"- i.e., you should be able to walk up them, rather than jump up them. The map "Ruination" in UT2003/2004 is a good example of this.

SP flow and MP flow aren't really all that different. MP flow should flow in loops/figure eights around the key objectives (flags in CTF, items except for the single most powerful one or two in DM, etc). SP flow should flow nicely from locale to locale. Having to jump up steps just slows things down needlessly.

lots of gameplay issues caused by monsters popping in and out thanks to zoning issues
? do you really know what about you're talking here? Do you know anything about zoning? Jaspos knew his problems with that and talked about it. But at all I'd never mentioned it about his problems with that because it's very difficult caused by the engine of PK. And he made an indoor-map - therefore it's much easier do to. And so far I never heard about those monster pop in and out. But maybe it's possible on a critical point but surely not as an gameplay issues.
But at all it's needless to talk about those things because nobody says that you have to like the map. Do what ever you want.
For me it's good enough that the most players like it. All would never possible.
From my experience in other engines, I'm assuming that it's zoning; it could well be something else. Anyways, in the hall behind the waterfall, once you walk past a certain point, monsters just pop in; take one step back, and they pop out.

Varus77

09-12-2005, 12:59 AM

Yes - sorry about these Lightning thing - I've read it wrong. And you can believe me (or not) that I know anything about UV-mapping. Yes - you're absolutly right with those details but I knew this before I posted the map. And surely I know what I'd have to do to correct this. But for me it was good enough. You know: I've made the map on my way - if you want have a map in your way then you have to make your own map. ;)

I don't know what you want. Do you want have your money back? ;)
Have you anywhere read some words by me that I've mentioned: This is an awesome, pretty nice map! Have I said that you have to play it, that you have to like it? Or do you think that I don't know every poly of my map?

Do you know this: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. And if you know this then have you understood the sense of it?

Let me explain it on Jaspos map. As he've posted his map I was one of the first person that've mentioned to him all the things I like on his map. But I never said anything about these or those problems or failures. What'd me give the right? I'm absolutly sure that he knows all these things better than me. If he'd ask me about or would say - please test it - then I'd give him an answer. But he didn't asked me.
And therefore - if you don't like it - don't play it. This should be easy. ;)

And btw - I'm not a professional, I never learned it, it's not my job. I've made the map for me and those which like it.

And to those screen from Jaspos map:
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/331/tow025tw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^^ but again !!! I never did a criticism about it because I know and saw that he want to do it in this way. And you can jump out of the whole map in the outdoor part and inside, the part with the many pillars, the whole geometry pop in and out...but why should I mentioned this in the forum? He know these long before he posted his map! Therefore it was the way he want do it. It was good enough for himself and therefore it has to be good enough for me...because I didn't paid for it!

Jaspos

09-12-2005, 05:17 AM

Why am I and my level in this post ???
The ToW screenshot of texture tiling is taken from a vantage point not in normal gameplay and it is rarely an issue at ground level. I don't think stretched or blurred textures are a good thing but sometimes they happen for several reasons.
I fixed the original zoning/popping issues a day after first release. It was an oversite of mine and not an engine problem. I did not spend time blocking the outside area except with the rock boundry. If you want to climb up on a rock and jump off into the deep nothing then farwell my friend !
Don't get too critical and don't get too offended by critics either. These are user made maps and it seems there are only 2 of them...Both should be compared to the original Painkiller and both fall short of the mark I say with each having it's good and bad points no doubt...
Please leave me and my map out of this post.

Varus77

09-12-2005, 08:30 AM

Yes - Jaspos - I'm very sorry about this ... but I'm sure you've read my opinion about all those things.
Both should be compared to the original Painkiller and both fall short of the mark I say with each having it's good and bad points no doubt...
Absolutely agree. But for me - that's sure - I never toy with the idea to make a comparable map to the graphical sight of any PK-map - therefore I can play on h3ll and PCF on heaven. They did an awesome job - one of best I've seen till now.

Some should better think about the fact that we have 18 months after PK only 2 SP-maps! What'd be the reason for this? I'm sure - you and me and some others like Fleabay, Gore-Shadow know the reasons...

Cynical

09-12-2005, 11:54 AM

Some should better think about the fact that we have 18 months after PK only 2 SP-maps! What'd be the reason for this? I'm sure - you and me and some others like Fleabay, Gore-Shadow know the reasons...
Mainly because there was no editor at release, and when the editor was finally released, it was well past the game's SP prime. Had there been an editor on one of the discs, we'd have more.

SYS

09-12-2005, 04:21 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

today i published some of my "hills" - videos on darkscorner, and now i will share them here too!

clearing the tower on trauma mode (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/hills_tower.wmv) the video is not perfect, but it shows an easy
option to clear the tower from enemies.
the lava statue (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/statue.wmv) shows 3 variants
the beast (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/beast.wmv) shows 5 variants
the beast head (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Cyody/beast_head.wmv)

to be continued! :)

my pc is defect :( and for this reason, i had to play and record the vids on my laptop! therefore....please don't expect high quality videos!

and thousand thanks to varus, for hosting my vids!!! :)

have fun & cu!

Cyody, thumbs up for these videos! Like I said on Dark's Forums, it's nice to see them shared. They can be helpful for Others, and they also entertains and shows new ways for us, who have finished "Hills" already. Thanks for them! :) And please, let me know if You make more - I'm always interested in them (even if my replies are so late - sorry about that)...

Oh, and I like Your way out from the small room with the two Holys, without the stone ball - thumbs up! When I first sucked Varus' trap there, I also tried to catch a dog, but I wasn't success: the dog fell apart (I also used the PK-weapon, as I remember) and I couldn't jump out...

Mr. Q

09-12-2005, 05:17 PM

The map is very nice don't bother what they say, its a very time consuming hobby and we all appreciate you made this map.
I playing in Nightmare mode now but i hate those long loading times (about 5 min). If it didn't took that long i would play it in trauma to but i'm not that patience enough.
If i finisch i'll post a screenshot.

Darkinfinity

09-13-2005, 05:53 AM

cyody

09-15-2005, 06:19 AM

Cyody, some people have talked about a special strategy for dealing with the tanks. Do you know if anything ever came of that? Anything especially clever that would be fun to try? Any videos? They weren't too difficult for me, except the last couple, but I always like to try fun things. Also, on Trauma mode, at what point did you go for the holy item in the Beast Head mouth? It sure is easy to make a mistake there and fall a long way down.

I want to try Hills again on Nightmare mode. I'm not normally a Trauma person but there's something about Hills and its one and only checkpoint that intrigues me so I'll probably give it a go eventually. On Insomnia I got 16 out of 18 so never finished it. I blew up some things I don't think I was supposed to very early in the game so always assumed it wasn't possible for me to finish that particular attempt.

By the way, they did a short piece on Machu Pichu on the television not too long ago. I was amazed how much Hills captures the same atmosphere and feeling of the place, if not all the details.

sorry for my late reply, ratty! but i had some troubles the last days and i had to sort things....so i forgot to answer.....i apologize! :o

yeah, i have recorded a tanks - video (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/cyody/tanks.wmv) that shows my tactics for the tanks. i also had big troubles with the tanks, when i played hills the first time! but with the tactics, that i show in my video, you can destroy the tanks pretty easy. ;)

i don't remember exactly on what point i did go for the hoy item in the beast head mouth. but if you plan to play hills on trauma-mode, you should grab this item before you go to the tower. and *imho* the second way i show in my beast head video, is pretty easy.

i only can say to you:"ratty, try to play hills on trauma-mode!!!"
yes, i know....hills is very hard on trauma-mode, but it is doable....believe me!
the enemies are not the probelm! the main-problem are the secrets and the holy items....there are only little mistakes allowed. and before you go to the checkpoint, you should only miss 5 holy items and one secret, so that you can finish the game on the tower.

my congrats for the 16 :) i'm sure you will get 17 & 18 in your next try! :)
i also get stuck two times, because i destroyed too many things, lol.
first time i destroyed the wooden boxes and i couldn't climb up to the pipe, that leads to the golden bull...restart. the second time i destroyed everything by the checkpoint.....lol, once again: restart :D

Ratty

09-15-2005, 02:28 PM

first time i destroyed the wooden boxes and i couldn't climb up to the pipe, that leads to the golden bull That's just what I did. I tried many times to climb the boxes and after awhile I simply figured that hole didn't lead anyplace interesting so I blew them up. Stupid me. That was very early in the game and I didn't have a save before that point. Anyway, I'm going to try it again on nightmare before I give trauma mode a try. That one single checkpoint, that's just evil I tell you. So naturally it has made me want to give it a try, just to show that Varus guy a thing or two!

Your tank method looks pretty simple. To conserve ammo I used Frag Maniac's excellent Leningrad technique, letting the tank I was attacking shield me from the other tanks' fire. It actually worked very well until the last two tanks. I think they have more hitpoints. I had to reload a lot. When I do trauma I'll use your technique and play it very safe.

I also want to practice a lot more on the tower. Your own tower-clearing technique was useful to see and I will do that next time. I want to figure out if it's possible to get all of the holy items without having to ride a barrel twice which I had to do last time. Once to get the holy item at the end of the wires and the second time to get the one on those horrible stairs. I see no way to get that one from the bottom. Once I can do the tower several times then I know I'm ready for Trauma.

Varus77

09-15-2005, 03:36 PM

:D yes ...I know...I'm so nasty...with those boxes. You were not surprised about this little easy item between the boxes? ;) Sure - you can take it without problem...but maybe, my "plan", you'd destroy the boxes before.... ;)
But don't be to much sad about this...we have here one very skilled TombRaider fan and therefore he was very skilled for those things...and what he did at first time?... ;) :D And he was not the first as I know and not the last...

For the barrel thing...you are right...done in the right order you needed only one.

Oh..btw...the last two tanks are the same as the both at first....German Tiger...you know it: slower than Russian but very strong

SYS

09-15-2005, 06:33 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

LOL, Varus! ;) :D Was that dead body intended anyway? Near that area... You thought about that potential in it? Or was it just random...? :)

Varus77

09-15-2005, 06:41 PM

It was really a random...maybe a underground feeling in my tummy like I need a dummy ? :D

SYS

09-18-2005, 04:17 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Since Peti isn't a Member here, I think, I should post His latest "Hills"-video here too... If You want to see something crazy, then use one of the links below. Peti shows us how He can collect all 18 Holy Items in only 8:20! After killing all monsters of course, but exaclty from the starting point. Get ready for some nice tricks too... ;)

Peti's words...

"
Here's my next vid: collecting every Holy Items in 8:20 from the starting point... after killing all monsters of course. ;)

WARNING! SPOILERS INSIDE!

The recording consists of two sections, the cut is at the checkpoint (where else :)). This ~10 secs piece is completely missing from the video. IMHO there's no certain method of barrel-jump, thus unfair thing to show my mere luck. I tried it million times but I have no bloody idea how it works.

(The background music is various tracks from Serious Sam: Second Encounter game.)
"

"Hills - Gold Rush" -- Golddigging by Peti (High Quality, 71.2 MB) (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/peti2mtag/pk-hills-goldrush.wmv)

"Hills - Gold Rush" -- Golddigging by Peti (Low Quality, 26.8 MB) (http://tombraider.central-game.net/sys/painkiller/peti2mtag/pk-hills-goldrush-lq.wmv)

Have fun! :)

Varus77

09-18-2005, 04:59 PM

As I said at Darkscorner:

WoW...very nice done and you used for the Dragon and for the Tower the optimal ways. A very cool hill-climbing in the last part running for 15-18.
I like the music very much too.

At first I thought that the Hole-Item-Run challenge would mean a run along all monsters from the beginning to the end-signum... ;) ...but this is maybe to difficult, isn't it? :)

BTW...the PK-waepon for the drop-down of the statue inside of the pyramide was very risky because this is one of some waepons with a twisting effect or ragdoll likewise

SYS

09-21-2005, 09:12 PM

Mr. Q

09-22-2005, 09:37 AM

I was playing it on nightmare now but i have encounterd several bugs. I dont know if its the map or if it's the engine in general what causes the bugs.

The bolder that close the pyramid room was already in front of the gap when i entered that room with those boxes, so i reloaded a previous save and then it was ok.

The bolder that has to be pushed alone the road next to the montains felt through (yes not over the edge) the ramp. Reload again.

Non off the barrels gets me up high, they just explode doing me damage.

Now i cant get over the bridge to the tower, i get stuck in the beginning and then i fall through the bridge. When i played it before i didn't had those bugs.

Varus77

09-22-2005, 10:53 AM

This sounds to me that you have a problem with the MOPPCode...
This folder contains all files for the collision maps, built through your PC, like a "save", if you load a map first time. This folder is in Data/Maps/MOPPCode. There you'll find hills12.mpk too. Move this folder anywhere and restart any save of Hills. Therefore the collisions map will rebuild.
I hope this help you out and that it works. :)

The bolder that close the pyramid room was already in front of the gap when i entered that room with those boxes, so i reloaded a previous save and then it was ok. - This effect you can reach in the editor at the moment if you only reload the scripts but not the map. This stone isn't a item, it's a part of the map geometry. It is a "phys" object:
- "phys" = active mesh, physics object. Inactive at level start, activates on
touch (or by weapons and explosions). Upon activation it is treated as a convex
shape even if it isn't. For instance you have U shaped object wrapped around a
pole, it will be pushed away from the pole upon activation as it will be treated as
a full convex shape which it wasn't before activation.

Varus77

09-22-2005, 11:21 AM

...a voice from the darkness.....

And now we have the 3rd crazy guy, who ever finished "Hills" on Trauma, with 5 Stars! He is RémLátó, from our HWSW-Forums: click here (http://kepfeltoltes.hu/050918/hills_trauma_5star.jpg) to view His Statistics! ;) And to top it all, it was just His 2nd(!) completion, although He needed about two weeks to beat "Hills" on Trauma (comperatively: I needed only 1 day, but I finished "Hills" some times before I tried it on Trauma)... :)

:D
The Hungarians...!...seems to be the real hardcore gamers.
SyS...give RémLátó my congratulations and my respect for those grandios play...
oh...AND...for the zip click the pic :)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5824/schild035vf.jpg (http://www.shuto.ch/users/adre/aGe/Varus/Schild.zip)

Greybeard

09-22-2005, 12:50 PM

Not in Sys, Cyody or RemLato's class but my meagre effort.
http://uk.geocities.com/mandas@btinternet.com/Trauma.jpg
After Nightmare, I didn't think I could do Trauma but it kept nagging at me. I know my limitations, so I purposely devised a 1* run, taking every advantage of the map, that I might just manage. I made lots of detailed notes on how to go about it. I've padded them out into a walkthrough that might be of interest to those about to set out or are having trouble with a particular bit. I've tried to find simple ways to do as much as possible. Have a look here to see if it's of interest.
http://uk.geocities.com/mandas@btinternet.com/Hills.htm
A couple of 'thank you's. Firstly to Cyody for showing me some ways to tackle the rope bridge from the Tower. From his examples, I devised a way so (relatively) simple, even I could do it.
And, of course, to Varus for Hills. But, please, when you design the next one, put another checkpoint in!

Greybeard

P.S. Given that I was puposely not collecting gold, I'm not proud of the 35 'gibbing' bonus but that large zombie by the Golden Bull Statue got jammed in the tunnel and I couldn't resist!

SYS

09-22-2005, 01:18 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Congratulations, GreyBeard - very well done! You've just joined to the few... * thumbs up * :) I checked Your walkie too, and that's very nice also - hopefully there will be more Players in the near future who'll start and finish "Hills" on Trauma. But there's only one problem: I couldn't see any pictures on the site - maybe You just haven't uploaded them yet(?)...

Varus, thanks a lot - I've just posted the good news on the HWSW-Forum's PK-Topic (http://forum.hwsw.hu/index.php?showtopic=18638&view=findpost&p=3333641), so RémLátó will be happy, that's sure... :) Indeed, Hungarians are "tuff guyz", but I think the same about the German players: watching the nice videos from You and Kalme, and loosing MP-matches easily against German MP-Players..erm, well... :D

Ratty

09-22-2005, 03:57 PM

Nice walkthrough. I've gotten to the first checkpoint on Trauma but keep getting killed. I may restart and try to save that checkpoint to the very end. It's a tough call, there are a lot of nasty and tricky jumps that could kill you too soon (oh you evil Varus).

For the first spider I ran like mad up the side of the cliff and, as high as possible, shot him with stakes until he died. It's a good vantage point because you can keep him in view at all times and jump when he rears up, but he can't hurt you with his homing rockets. Also you can wait awhile in safety and let his earthquake attacks take out most of the other baddies. It's bad because you take a lot of damage from bats, you have to move so fast there's really no time to take them out first.

Greybeard

09-22-2005, 05:25 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Congratulations, GreyBeard - very well done! You've just joined to the few... * thumbs up * :) I checked Your walkie too, and that's very nice also - hopefully there will be more Players in the near future who'll start and finish "Hills" on Trauma. But there's only one problem: I couldn't see any pictures on the site - maybe You just haven't uploaded them yet(?)...

Many thanks. I really have no idea how you guys 5* it. Beyond my comprehension. Also, thanks for letting me know about the pics in the walkthrough. I don't upload things very often and hadn't realised they get seperated out. I've corrected it.

Ratty - I didn't know you could get out of the way of the Spider's rockets by going far enough up the cliff. A very appealing ploy but I do hate those Bats! Good luck in your future attempts

Greybeard

Varus77

09-22-2005, 05:59 PM

...(oh you evil Varus).

It's bad because you take a lot of damage from bats, you have to move so fast there's really no time to take them out first.

:D ...therefore they are... ( oh - I hate bats...like Greybeard ;) )

@ Greybeard

Thx for these epic of a walkthrough! (It was sometimes like seeing a movie about it)
I like it very much. You could think: 'Why should he need a walkthrough - he should know what's going on there!' :) Yes - sure - but it was very interesting for me to read all your ways of pain, all your finding outs, all your thoughts. This is a wonderful feedback for me because I might thought what ever I want but it's always difficult to "see" before what the player will do, which feeling he'd become and so on.
Your walkthrough is like seeing you during your playing, feeling with you.
...At the moment, it’s unprotected (hurrah!)...I hate Bats. I think I’ve said that!...
and ending with outtakes - that's the way I like it!
Great - much thanks for this all.

A Witch may have appeared but she’ll ignore you (I’ve no idea why).
^^It's a very busy and friendly witch... :D
Phew!...The Dragonflies will have followed you.
Very interesting too...so many total different tactics are possible. Yes, that's what I want to get...so much non linear and different as possible...how each player typ would like it
Instead, jump for the rope. This is a bit scary...(Tower) - nice feeling ;)
You’re heading for the last Holy Item and the game ends when you grab it... - sorry, only for version 1.00 (little mistake in Kalmes first setup) - in the current version you have a end signum poping up at a nice place ;)
My finger seems to be frozen to the Walk Forward key... (spider - outtakes) - you know that the spider can freeze you?

OT: Have you ever tried to shoot down the Monk statue at the pyramide with one of the cannons (after "loading" with the cannon ball)? - just for fun...

SYS

09-22-2005, 07:45 PM

...a voice from the darkness.....

Umm, Varus..Rémlátó asked me to ask You for something - but only if it's not a problem... :D It's not a big deal, it's just His nickname: He writes it with lowercase only. So His nickname is actually "rémlátó". It's just my attitude to write people's nicknames in stupid forms, LOL! So He asked You, only if it's not a big problem, that could You change His name to "rémlátó" on that "Hall of Fame"-table? Small think I know, but we must respect how He writes His name, and actually I was who spreaded it wrongly... :)

BTW, He said that it's really nice that You respect Him too with the table, but He also said that the respects should go to You, for designing "Hills"! Oh, He also mentioned that He'll try to finish "Hills" in one hour on Trauma, with 5-Stars - that would be nice, so we'll see... :)

GreyBeard, thanks for the updates with pictures! About 5-Starring "Hills" - well, in general, I 5-Star everything, but it's not hard or tedious at all (at least for me), since it means that You just pick up everything everywhere and You just destroy everything everywhere (and so on), as You're progressing. And if You're still missing something at the end, then You just need to search for it, but if You have good eyes and You do it in a systematic way, then You really can't miss anything. (I know this is unbelievable, but it's true.) I usually don't miss anything at the end, and even with new levels... So You can do it even for the first completion (but in return, Your finishing-time increases)... :)