Dungeon Siege 2 - the better DL

[vossi]

I played DL from the start and about half way through I was really angry.

Some days ago I gave DS 2 a try. And it was really worth it!
Towns full of people. Many dialogs and many side quests!

Everything missing in DL is found in DS 2. I hate the first one, boring after some hours, but part 2 is much better. Nice storytelling and a gorgeous world to explore!

GREAT GAME!

[txa1265]

Everything missing in DL is found in DS 2.
Um, no.

While I agree that Dungeon Siege II is a better game than Dungeon Lords, they are not the same game type, so comparing them is not quite an apples-to-apples comparison.

Combat, for instance, is much better conceptually in DL with the controlled moves than the typical old action-RPG right-click-and-hold.

Also, Dungeons in Dungeon Lords are much better laid out and fundamentally more challenging, and conceptually work better.

Notice I keep saying 'conceptually' - that is because everything that DL tries to do it stumbles on - Dungeons, Combat, etc. Where as Dungeon Siege II is very well realized, rounded out, and polished.

Mike

[Demonic]

Um, no.

While I agree that Dungeon Siege II is a better game than Dungeon Lords, they are not the same game type, so comparing them is not quite an apples-to-apples comparison.

Combat, for instance, is much better conceptually in DL with the controlled moves than the typical old action-RPG right-click-and-hold.

Also, Dungeons in Dungeon Lords are much better laid out and fundamentally more challenging, and conceptually work better.

Notice I keep saying 'conceptually' - that is because everything that DL tries to do it stumbles on - Dungeons, Combat, etc. Where as Dungeon Siege II is very well realized, rounded out, and polished.

Mike


Ummm, yes. You see, Dungeon Siege II is actually what you would call "Working as intended". On the planet where I live (Earth) that means that the game has and does pretty much what it says on the box and in the users manual when you go buy it from the store.

I mean you pretty much invalidate everything you pointed out that is supposed to make DL great with all the "conceptuallys" and the last paragraph when you said DL stumbles on pretty much, well, everything.

Thats like someone saying "Dude, the game I am thinking about right now and making up in my head is SO much better than any game out right now!!!" and then releasing a fisrt person Pong or something.

[txa1265]

Dungeon Siege II is actually what you would call "Working as intended". On the planet where I live (Earth) that means that the game has and does pretty much what it says on the box and in the users manual when you go buy it from the store.That is why DL has reviews in the ~55% range and DSII has reviews ~80%. Not because DSII is all that high concept, it just works perfectly from start to finish, and has solid production values.

I mean you pretty much invalidate everything you pointed out that is supposed to make DL great with all the "conceptuallys" and the last paragraph when you said DL stumbles on pretty much, well, everything.Which is why I said:

While I agree that Dungeon Siege II is a better game than Dungeon Lords, they are not the same game type, so comparing them is not quite an apples-to-apples comparison.

I was not sticking up for DL, merely saying that the comparison between the two is not all that valid. I like DSII quite a bit - which surprised me since I was no fan of the first game.

Mike

[Shock]

All I know is that I'm having more fun with DS2 than I ever did with DL, but then again, I never got very far in DL because I keep waiting for them to fix it so I can experience the completed game. I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen in the next year or two given the length of time it took to program the mess that went out the door on release day.

The one good thing about the DL messageboard is that it seems to retain some value from the talk of other games. It's like the new spot everyone gravitates to.

[Demonic]

That is why DL has reviews in the ~55% range and DSII has reviews ~80%. Every review I read on DL it was lucky to get a 20 or 30%.

[txa1265]

All I know is that I'm having more fun with DS2 than I ever did with DL, but then again, I never got very far in DL because I keep waiting for them to fix it so I can experience the completed game. I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen in the next year or two given the length of time it took to program the mess that went out the door on release day. I have long since given up that hope ... as I said in my review, even if *everything* was fixed, I still don't see this (DL) as better than a 80% game. We already know that some key members have left Heuristic Park (check the forums and do the math), and I just don't see it ever meeting up with what they *hoped* to release, let alone what we here had been counting on based on the previews & interviews.

Every review I read on DL it was lucky to get a 20 or 30%.Well, it was actually lower than I had been seeing on GameTab - both MetaCritic and GameRankings (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/915110.asp) have it just below 50%.

Mike

[chamr]

There are two different comparisons we're talking about here: quality and fun factor. There is no argument that DS2 wins the quality award over DL. Duh. Fun factor is a different matter. Not only is it subjective, but, as I think txa was trying to say, DS2 and DL take fundamentally different approaches to the action-RPG genre that makes them difficult to compare in the fun-factor category. I'd say it's analgous to saying Warcraft 3 is more fun than Age of Kings. They're both RTS's, but take pretty different approaches and whether you prefer one over the other is mostly a matter of personal preference.

Having said all that, my own experience is that DS2 is still pretty dull. It's DS1 with a few extra bells and whistles. DS1 was impressive and fun for about the first third of the game, then became very unsatisfying. I've only played the demo of DS2, but it seems to me I'd end up quitting it half-way through just like I did DS1. In contrast, even with all it's warts, I'm still feeling compelled to finish DL and am looking forward to trying another character or two. To each his own, I guess.

[hammerpony]

There are two different comparisons we're talking about here: quality and fun factor. There is no argument that DS2 wins the quality award over DL. Duh. Fun factor is a different matter. Not only is it subjective, but, as I think txa was trying to say, DS2 and DL take fundamentally different approaches to the action-RPG genre that makes them difficult to compare in the fun-factor category. I'd say it's analgous to saying Warcraft 3 is more fun than Age of Kings. They're both RTS's, but take pretty different approaches and whether you prefer one over the other is mostly a matter of personal preference.

Having said all that, my own experience is that DS2 is still pretty dull. It's DS1 with a few extra bells and whistles. DS1 was impressive and fun for about the first third of the game, then became very unsatisfying. I've only played the demo of DS2, but it seems to me I'd end up quitting it half-way through just like I did DS1. In contrast, even with all it's warts, I'm still feeling compelled to finish DL and am looking forward to trying another character or two. To each his own, I guess.

im feeling the polar opposite to you chamr.
i want DL to be good and to be finished, but i even struggled to play morrowind more than a third of the way through, so i think its just my personal preferance with 3rd person action/rpgs. i want to love them but i get bored same with FPS too.

i am enjoying DS2 right now and i will actually play through a couple times, if you got bored with 1, 2 may not be for you, but they did make HUGE improvements on an old engine. and im very satisfied with graphics, textures, story and function. i find in DS2 there isnt a lot of that "run away" feeling where your barreling through areas to never see them again. in fact in DS2 theres a lot of exploring and re-exploring to unlock areas you couldnt at lower levels. in fact ive been camping in one town for about 10 hours witch is nice, and theres great teleport gates all around the world too so travel is very smooth.

[Vampire_X]

Dungeon Siege 1 aftering playing for 2 hours = uninstalled nuff said.

Dungeon Siege 2 = after playing demo didnt bother with the full version

= trash.

[CraigBee]

I agree with Vampire X. DS 1 and 2 are trash. For DS I, I used a keyboard script to press 'H' every 5 seconds. I left the game on when I left for work, and had won the game by the time I returned home. If you are excited about pressing 'H' every 5 seconds, and love watching colors flash on your screen, DS1 is for you.

[Shock]

It's not trash. You might be, but the game is not. Also, don't lie about beating the game automatically. That is not possible, even for an intelligent person.

[Vampire_X]

yes its trash , just because kiddies like yourself will play ANYTHING specially when the game is a tedious piece of trash im sorry but im picky the games have to be fun have to keep me interested not some little **** poor click crap fest with no story or gameplay im sure you're one of those kids who say Halo is the best fps ever made heh , if its not trash perhaps you would tell us what makes this such a great game? The horrible annoying camera? The ugly bland graphics? The bad level design every area looks the same no detail put into it?

Oh lets walk down this forest trail click click click health potion lets walk some more wow everything looks the same , weeee look at the blurry enemies awesome game shock! Now lets head into town and guess what we gotta do? Thats right , Walk some more on the same looking path but now theres snow! and guess what we desend into more little ugly dungeons and now we got 8 people! clickity click click click! end of game.

Seriously the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina looks better then this game.

and you've made you're horrible taste in games public if i were you i'd just go take a dip in hurricane katrina and not come up for air :)

[Dûr Ithil]

customize face... click click clik... hmmm.. nothing happening...
customize clothes... click click click... nothing again...
automap.. hit the button again and again and again.. the same...
walk around the ghost town.. such an interaction with NPCs

you're right Vampire.. you are a picky person to pick DL

[NFLed]

Dungeon Siege 1 aftering playing for 2 hours = uninstalled nuff said.

Dungeon Siege 2 = after playing demo didnt bother with the full version

= trash.

Basically the same for me although I won't even bother to try the demo. The "gameplay" in DS is to say the least not my cup of tea (though of course I don't go on their message boards and bash their game). What really bothers me is that since DS2 is "well done" -- meaning it looks pretty and has value for what it does -- it tells developers the clear message that games should be more like DS2 instead of DL. I agree with the message that games should work as advertised etc. but the more DS2 type games they make the more utterly disgusted I will be since it's not my cup of tea. That DS2 gets good reviews and Wiz9 isn't even being made is a complete travesty in my view.

[Vampire_X]

customize face... click click clik... hmmm.. nothing happening...
customize clothes... click click click... nothing again...
automap.. hit the button again and again and again.. the same...
walk around the ghost town.. such an interaction with NPCs

you're right Vampire.. you are a picky person to pick DL

well there both crap , just dungeon siege is more smelly crap :)

[Visigoth]

well there both crap , just dungeon siege is more smelly crap :)


Funny, I played the dmeo for Dungeon Siege and all the options were available, not to mention a slick looking game engine and beautiful world to roam in... ah well, to each his/her own I suppose.

[chamr]

Again, let's not confuse polish (or in DL's case just getting the game done), with whether or not the gameplay is good.

I'm afraid I just don't get all the 80%+ reviews for DS2. It's just not that much of an advance over DS1. From where I sit, for them to have added/changed as little as they did, the game should get no more than a 70% or so. I'm glad they released a highly polished, essentially bug-free product. That doesn't make it a good game.

I find the hack and slash action of DL far superior, engaging and challenging to that of DS2. If there's one thing they got mostly right in DL, it's the combat. Combat, as everyone knows, is the heart of any hack and slash. IMHO, DL wins this category over DS2 hands down. In addition, the character advancement in DL is much more interesting than DS2. I can't believe the DS1 fans aren't more dissapointed that all they came up with in all this time was a weaker version of D2's skill trees with some acarde game-like super powers. And, they discourage multi-classing!!! In game!!! With the dialogue!!!! :confused:

[Shock]

DS2 is even more fun when you form a group with friends and go through the quests, so I can see where some of you would have a problem. You should stick to picking your nose and wiping it on your PS2.

[Zothen]

@Vampire_X: Stick to text-adventures if you don't like to use your mouse as a primary interface! :rolleyes:

Is it bad that a game is easy and intuitive to use? Definitely not. "Point & Click" style is a far common technique you know. As for your pointless statement of a "all-look-asame"-world...what a nonsense, regarding DS1 AND DS2. I enjoyed every angle of the gameworld, but I start to doubt that you even played the same game like me.

Story? Well, agreed, DS1 hadnt a good one, but DS2 is totally different. Awesome cutscenes, Baldurs-Gate-like interaction between party NPCs and lots of background info about whats going on in the game world, not to mention a lot of nice quests and funny dialogues.

[Vampire_X]

DS2 is even more fun when you form a group with friends and go through the quests, so I can see where some of you would have a problem. You should stick to picking your nose and wiping it on your PS2.

thats what i thought you cant name one good thing about dungeon siege , just a underage fanboy kiddie :(

[Zothen]

Okay, especially for Vampire_X:

DS1:

- Huge gameworld with all imaginable terrain types, like deserts, lava, woods, plains, swamps etc.
- Additional Non-Linear Multiplayer-Map where you can wander around freely, discovering hidden paths and dungeons
- Challenging difficulty modes for lasting fun and character development
- Lots of items
- Lots of spells including funny pets like Dragons, etc.
- Multiplayer option
- Easter-Eggs
- Huge modding community

Not enough? I never liked DS 1 as I do Diablo 2, but it's still a superior game.

[LordFess]

DS2 is very very fine game! It is an excellant example of how all PC game products should be marketed and sold to the public consumers.Heres a salute to all the fine folks involved with the creation and development of this great masterpiece of a PC game!! Thanks and keep on doing what you are doing!!!

[txa1265]

great masterpiece of a PC gameGreat masterpiece!??! Don't get out much, eh? ;)

Fallout - great masterpiece. Baldur's Gate 2 - great masterpiece. KotOR - great masterpiece. Gothic 2 - great masterpiece. Dungeon Siege 2 - solid and fun.

But I agree that this is the way things *should* be done - make a game that meets or exceeds expectations based on what you said would be there, release it in a timely fashion - DS2 had only a few month delay - and make the release solid.

With too many games these days you hit a wall and aren't sure if it is something you need to figure out or a bug in the game.

Mike

[Zothen]

I played DS2 for a few days, but the only "bug" I discovered was my NPC party members attacking nonexisting enemies in very rare situations.

Unfortunetely the random item generator isnt more random than in DS1, many of the items of the same kind have exactly the same modifiers instead all possible variations. An example is the "Frostbite" mace, which is declared as rare, but is always the same in the weapon shop. Therefor it should be unique instead.

But I still enjoy this great game and I am looking forward to play in LAN with my buddies.

[Shock]

Great masterpiece!??!
Fallout - great masterpiece. Baldur's Gate 2 - great masterpiece. KotOR - great masterpiece. Gothic 2 - great masterpiece. Dungeon Siege 2 - solid and fun.

Mike

In all honesty, the only games on that list that kept my attention enough to finish them was Baldur's Gate 2 and Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege 2 seems to be the same way since I can't stop playing it. /shrug

[LordFess]

In all honesty, the only games on that list that kept my attention enough to finish them was Baldur's Gate 2 and Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege 2 seems to be the same way since I can't stop playing it. /shrug
Ditto Shock...

[txa1265]

In all honesty, the only games on that list that kept my attention enough to finish them was Baldur's Gate 2 and Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege 2 seems to be the same way since I can't stop playing it. /shrug
Just because someone doesn't have the attention span or ability to handle James Joyce's 'Ulysses' doesn't make it not a great masterpiece of literature ...

[Shock]

Ah, but I did read "Les Miserables" and looking forward to "Les Miserables 2".

[Zothen]

Well, KotoR, Gothic, Baldurs Gate are all great games, but masterpiece or not still lies in the eye of the beholder to some extend. If I dont like a game, it's not of importance that its valued as a masterpiece by others. The same applies the other way around.

[Visigoth]

In all honesty, the only games on that list that kept my attention enough to finish them was Baldur's Gate 2 and Dungeon Siege. Dungeon Siege 2 seems to be the same way since I can't stop playing it. /shrug


I found DS 1 a litle boring, but Baldurs Gate 2... now THAT was a masterpiece.

[Visigoth]

Ah, but I did read "Les Miserables" and looking forward to "Les Miserables 2".

Hey... I always read the "articles" in Penthouse.

[Silveressa]

My initial take on DL is that it's a modded and tweaked "what if we try this" take on DS. Over all it's fun but the manual is seriously lacking in a lot of catagories and aye, it could use some serouos itroning out. But, it;s better than Guild Wars ata least. (that game was a 3 move wonder and boring as ****)

DS was better than GW but worse than DL, and DS II I almost feel should have been an expansion pack to DS I and still lacked a certain amount of depth.

Over all though I can't help but compare them all to Never Winter Nights (and it's expansions SOTU and HOTU) which i think rank as the the best pc based rpg's of all time. (maybe not in the exact hack and slash method DL and the rest do it but pretty darn close)

Morrow Wind, well that game's even more of the night mare bug fest than DL, but at least you could mod that one.

That's my 2 cents worth on how Dl stacks up to the other games ;)

[Xyyth]

It would be fine if there wasn't a lot of noticeable missing content like NPCs, quests, atmosphere, character creation elements, etc.

[phalzyr]

Morrow Wind, well that game's even more of the night mare bug fest than DL, but at least you could mod that one.

That's my 2 cents worth on how Dl stacks up to the other games ;)

hmm I never had any problems with Morrwwind except not being able to find a certain quest npc in such a huge city.. but that was entirely my fault... I think if you are going to compare MW to DL you should at least do so realistically. Say the first to cities and path between them, MW had more content in that small part of it than all of DL...

The CONCEPT of DL is great, and I like it over DS2's any day. But I'd love to see it with a game attached not a concept demo. I like the style of DL's combat better than DS2 by a long shot, BUT DS2 IMHO is a far better game, becasue it has more content in it pinky than DL has in its whole body. A better and easier to follow/get into story.

The best part of DS2 is the moddability, If you don't like a certain aspect about the game you can change it. I hate how hte potion system made me horde potions, so I edited it...

The thing I hate most about DS2 is that they state old features as if they are new. Now instead of being able to select on a panel on the right how automatic the game is we have to do it via the option menu.

If you complain about DS1 or DS2 playing itself you ought not to have turned on the auto play itself feature DUH! DS2 is much better in not auto playing itself though. I myself though turn on auto fighting. Yes I loved Diablo 2 but heck if I want carpal tunnel from all the clicking...

Truelly I can't wait for Oblivion and Gothic 3 to come out, but in the mean time I'm having a lot of fun with DS2. A lot more than I got out of DL that is for sure...

[Visigoth]

Morrow Wind, well that game's even more of the night mare bug fest than DL, but at least you could mod that one.




Morrowind buggy? Nope... at least not when I played it... sure, its had a few minor quest bugs and clipping issue, but the world was immersive and plain beautiful to adventure in, though after a while I did crave a bit more greenery. At least the expansion helped with that somewhat. My biggest gripe with the game honestly was the animations of Pcs, Npcs, and monsters.... stiff and uninspired.