Upgrades, and PK

[bjanga]

So, currently PK runs erratically. It will be smooth/fast at times, then go into slo-mo when my laptop cannot handle it (fx5200go/p42.8/512mbRAM). I notice there is no v-sync option in-game, is there a way to ensure that PK will play constantly at one speed? When I upgrade, will PK be hyper-fast and wildly uncontrollable, or will it play as the developers intended it?

[T'krau]

You could try enabling v-sync thru the video-card settings. How much on-board memory does the card have?

I kinda think the problem is with the laptop in general (sorry). While some here have played the game successfully on a laptop (CHFlagg, how's yours doing?), 'officially' it's not supposed to work that well. I suspect that the card (or the whole system) might be overheating. Does it run normally, then slow down, and later speed up again, or just slow down period?

[Bjossi]

No, the laptop is plain bad, a Geforce 4 is better than a GeforceFX 5200, and that´s on desktop computers.

Even upgrading to a FX 5700 is going to show you ALOT of difference. But since you´re using laptop, upgrading means buying a new system.

[bjanga]

Yes, I know that PK is slowing down because of my laptop. However, when I upgrade, will the game run rediculously fast? Is there some limit to the computer performance/gamespeed factor?

[Bjossi]

That doesn´t happen with today´s games, they have some code to limit speed in case the frames per second go to the hundreds, take Quake 2 and Unreal Tournament for examples.

Not even DOS games have these issues unless it´s a compability issue between the OS and the game. But there are however speed issues with dualcore processors; AMD64 and Intel EE brands. But those are bugs that will be fixed in future processors to come.

Painkiller ran in slow motion INSTEAD of slideshow, it´s a nifty way to make lagging less annoying. :)

[Artas1984]

bjanga, i have FX5200, 512 RAM and a 2.6 Celeron.

The problem is FX5200, yes i agree now: this card is schit, but you have laptop, so your only choise is always to play with low settings, no effects and 640/480 resolution.

[bjanga]

OK, I am glad to hear that there is a limit to the game's speed.

Artas, I find that 1024*768 and High texture/sky/decal settings plays about the same as 640*480 on low settings. Besides bloom, shadows, lights etc. I found that removing the weapon models gave me a good performance boost.

[Varus77]

OK, I am glad to hear that there is a limit to the game's speed.
...only by the hardware (if you misunderstood Bjossi)

PK and all other games from "today" have no limited game speed.
Besides of MP restrictions - and can't say anything about the old Q2 with the hardware from today - but e.g. for Quake3:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1373/q36sq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
...there are no limits.

But you have the fx5200go with 32Mb RAM in a laptop! And normally captured the GPU some RAM from your 512Mb RAM too. Therefore you have hard limits.
You can run the PK-Benchmark via console ( "~" (left from "1"))
>Benchmark C5L1
>Benchmark C5L2
and you'll see what happen...
You're right with the waepon model... makes ~10fps

[Bjossi]

I doubt that´s the case, because a simple model on screen doesn´t eat up much resources. More important things to turn off are Dynamic Lighting and Player Shadows, that helped me to make the game playable on my computer.

[Artas1984]

OK, I am glad to hear that there is a limit to the game's speed.

Artas, I find that 1024*768 and High texture/sky/decal settings plays about the same as 640*480 on low settings. Besides bloom, shadows, lights etc. I found that removing the weapon models gave me a good performance boost.

Nonsence lol, what are you saying? These are very very ones!
Weapon? Not much for me though...

Bjosi: dynamic lights and shadows are not so harsh like weather effects and sharpest texture filtering.

[[ThePact]]

Hello bjanga,


its not clear for me what we mean here by mentioning "upgrade" ?!

to a desktop, or still another laptop ?

i havent upgraded a laptop ever yet,
but i have done desktop, couple a' times
and i tell u, it makes unbeleivable diffrences !

i think no matter what standard you r working in (desktop or laptop) it makes diffrences to have something nicer than what u have, u know ...

either way, if staying with laptop, u gotta know that H.D.D's used in there,
r slower than the ones used in desktops. but u can still make up for that difference by handling some other things.

your cpu (2.8) is good ( plain 2.8, or u mean celeron or something? ),
in that range as the one u got, it wouldnt make that much of difference, but your Ram would and it definatly would !
if u could get DDR2 or atleast bump it up to 1G DDR1, u know, dual channel or regular, it would help alot.

and then the part that u could say counts he most, the graphic card.

if you wanna be fine with PK u gotta go for atleast 9800 series IMO.



and if u ever wanna get a serious Gaming mchine,
AMD would be the choice, as it'd be a different story http://dreamcatcherinteractive.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


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hey varus !
how have u been ?! =]

[Varus77]

At least - after sleeping and weaking up with his question in my mind - I guess he was talking/asking about the "game speed" or even better about the speed of the movements of all objects...
Maybe I've missed this because I haven't heard about since a very long time. Very long time ago the programming of "actions" in games was based on a total different way than "today". That's why you'd get a really unrealistic, very fast and unplayable action in those games with the performance of today's CPU. But of course like Bjossi mentioned this'd never be a problem with games of the last few years. The action is independently from all fps...means that you could die before you'll see it :D (on a very slow system)...this wasn't possible in the good old DOS-game time. :) But now you'd die in those DOS-games because it's faster than you can see...LOL

Times have changed...

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hey [ThePact] !
how have u been ?! =] < :confused: that means something like "how're you?" ... Well, :) not all things are changing...

[Bjossi]

Bjosi: dynamic lights and shadows are not so harsh like weather effects and sharpest texture filtering.

I consider it common sense to have those turned off with a FX 5200, so I assumed it was off already, otherwise the game would run so slowly that it´d take you 20 seconds to see any sign that you pressed the jump key.

[Varus77]

Yes and NO...

With a short test I got this results:
Shadows________36,36%
Wether__________27,27%
Warp____________20,00%
Particel High/Low__13,73%
Bloom____________11,36%
Dyn.Lights (Ultra)___5,41%
View Waepons______3,30%
Coronas____________2,63%
Detail Textures______1,14%
Highres Waepon______0,00%
(this is not exactly, only a trend - you'll get different results in others scenarios and hardware)

[Bjossi]

Turning off Dyn. Lighting made the most difference for me.
But you´re correct, different hardware has different technology and optimizations, a 7800 GTX user would see more FPS improvement by removing shadows than dyn. lighting since those cards have the optimizations and support for that kind of graphics, while shadows are heavy on every system.

My card would get alot worse FPS hit with dyn. lighting since it doesn´t have any support nor optimization for it.

[bjanga]

Yes, I was referring to how fast the enemies move, daniel reloads, etc. The speed at which the game plays at, NOT the frames per second.

So, to recap: PK will slow down the gamespeed, to keep it FPS high if necessary. However, PK will never play faster than PCF intended, no matter how high your FPS are.

View Weapon makes such a noticeable difference on my system that I would often 'speed up' immediately after switching weapons - different weapon models have different effects on game performance. I was amazed, because in other games like Far Cry and Quake4 I can hide my weapon model and have NO difference in framerate. PK can certainly handle high-poly environments, so maybe it has to do with lighting and the weapon model (although I have dyn. lighting off)?

[Bjossi]

The weapon model can´t increase FPS noticably, because this is just a model with a skin. I mean, you´re shooting at hundreds of models that have skin, picking up models with a skin, looking at environment models with a skin.

This speedup you get is probably based on where you´re facing, since Painkiller makes use of back face culling.

[Varus77]

The weapon model can´t increase FPS noticably, because this is just a model with a skin.

This is thought to short...
At first it's a slightly higher polygone object than a wall. But that isn't the problem because the engine and the modern graphic cards can handle this. But it's a moving objekt too not statically like this wall. And as a 3d model all objects behind have to be calculated for visibility. If you'll stop at a place with very large area and many objects and effects in the backround then you'd get a noticable reaction for the showing of the waepon model, especially on a slower CPU/GPU. This is caused by the calculation process. On a better CPU/GPU you won't see a great influence. And don't forget the effects for lightning and specular effects of bloom on the waepon modell too.

For the Dyn. Lighting you'll notice different influences for the levels too. In CityOfWater it isn't a problem others than in LoonyPark.

At least are the shadows, besides of particel effects, the greatest problem at all because of their realtime calculation as dynamical shadows. This "shadows" means the shadows of moving models - for all others, statically objects, are the lightmaps.

[bjanga]

The weapon model can´t increase FPS noticably, because this is just a model with a skin. I mean, you´re shooting at hundreds of models that have skin, picking up models with a skin, looking at environment models with a skin.

This speedup you get is probably based on where you´re facing, since Painkiller makes use of back face culling.
I thought this too, at first. It makes no sense. I am sure the speedups were not a result of where I was looking, because I could be standing still, and notice the particle effects like fires speed up as soon as I switched.

For your information, the stakegun appears to be the most performance-friendly gun with the Electrodriver or perhaps the boltgun being the most demanding.

[Bjossi]

I thought this too, at first. It makes no sense. I am sure the speedups were not a result of where I was looking, because I could be standing still, and notice the particle effects like fires speed up as soon as I switched.

For your information, the stakegun appears to be the most performance-friendly gun with the Electrodriver or perhaps the boltgun being the most demanding.

This still has another reason. Because the weapon models are just a few thousand polygons with a simple texture on them. This is either another reason or your computer is using an ancient processor and memory.